Ro's Rehearsal/studio rooms. [stage: build]

[Eric_Desart]

You're probably right but what is the meaning of e.z.?

[Ro]

You're probably right but what is the meaning of e.z.?

e.z as in easy (try pronouncing "e . . z... " )

thanx for the edit on page 2.

[Ro]

Man, I've been searching the whole net for mass/material. Found some for gypsum. 12,5mm is about 12,5 kg/m2, so that's easy.
now, metalstud profiles... could not found anything. I was wondering ain't there a list with materials used and it's mass? just like the bobgolds.com absorbation table ?

[Eric_Desart]

Ro,

Be careful.

Gypsum board ranges between 680 to a bit more than 1000 kg/m3 depending on type and supplier.
The ones you referred or not standard. Standard boards here and Netherlands will be more around 750 kg/m3. (= 0.75 kg per mm per m²)
The fire resistant or moisture resistant types are often the heaviest.

Metalstud is easy.
The lightweight profiles are +/- 0.6 mm thick galvanised steel and the density of steel is +/- 7.8 to 8 kg per mm per m2.

If you ask documentation on your supplier you can find all this info back.

Eric

[Ro]

The gypsum specs are from the ones I had in mind, but gotta check it with my supplier I guess. Thanx for the steel info. Okay, back to calculations again...

thanx again for your unlimited supply of info and patience (so it seams)

[Ro]

Mkay...

Been quite bussy with hasling my supliers for specs on the to-be-used materials. Calculated what mass to expect for the walls and floors. Here's what I came up with.

(Still haven't decided on how we're gonna setup the floors. But let's assume the walls are on top of the new floor. Anyhow, I've gotta beef up the existing floor underneath the area were the walls will be.)

- Materials
Gypsum (gyproc-A) 12,5mm (1/2") 728 kg/m3
Metalstud U-profile 100mm (4") 4800 kg/m3
Metalstud C-profile 100mm (4") 4800 kg/m3
Thermofelt subfloor 7.5mm (3") 260 kg/m3
MDF 15mm (5/8") 800 kg/m3
Agglomer 30mm 140 kg/m3
Laminate floor +/-5mm (2") 800 kg/m3 (not sure, but since laminate is made of MDF I took the same value of MDF)

Floor 3: (see picture)
The room innerwalls and floor ("speelruimte") and the controlroom wall are in total about 3000 kg.
walls: 3 layers of 12.5mm gypsum, isowool, metalstuds
floor: agglomer, MDF, subfloor, laminate floor
(I've include 10% overhead for screws, plaster, sealant etc)

This is pure the deadload of the walls and floors. Does this seem right? Or am I WAAY off


Another thing. I've made an apointement with an acoustic engineer who will perform an "acoestic test". This test will tell us how the building reacts on sound and where the biggest leaks are.
But prior to that, new/extra windows will be installed (today!) in the relax area on the 2nd floor. Resulting in a window with 2 pieces of glass; 3mm (the existing pane) and 4mm (the new added one) with an air gap of 50mm.

[Eric_Desart]

- Materials
Gypsum (gyproc-A) 12,5mm (1/2") 728 kg/m3
Metalstud U-profile 100mm (4") 4800 kg/m3
Metalstud C-profile 100mm (4") 4800 kg/m3
Thermofelt subfloor 7.5mm (3") 260 kg/m3
MDF 15mm (5/8") 800 kg/m3
Agglomer 30mm 140 kg/m3
Laminate floor +/-5mm (2") 800 kg/m3 (not sure, but since laminate is made of MDF I took the same value of MDF)

Hi Ro,

I never in my live heard Metalstud profiles weighing close to nothing (thin 0.6 mm steel) expressed in density as you do.
Steel weighs 7800 to 8000 kg/m3.

I assume you calculated the density in function of the volume of your cavity or something?
But that should mean that your cavity is filled with steel for a factor 4800/8000 = 60%

????????????????????????

[Ro]

hmm, I screwed SOMETHING up
Gotta check my XL sheet tomorrow, thanx for watching over my shoulder Eric.

ps:
Just got back from the building, got some extra windows added in the relax/smoking area Had to be done prior to the acoustic test (read back for the arguments)

2nd picture shows some rotten window-sealant, which the "guy" renewed. No more rattling window, yeah!
First picture's the actual proof somebody came over to add some glass

I've noticed some glass and whole pieces of rotten wood dropped down from the 3rd floor yesterday, BAD! I've informed my landlord about it, since this has become a hazard.

[Ro]

- Materials
Gypsum (gyproc-A) 12,5mm (1/2") 728 kg/m3
Metalstud U-profile 100mm (4") 4800 kg/m3
Metalstud C-profile 100mm (4") 4800 kg/m3
Thermofelt subfloor 7.5mm (3") 260 kg/m3
MDF 15mm (5/8") 800 kg/m3
Agglomer 30mm 140 kg/m3
Laminate floor +/-5mm (2") 800 kg/m3 (not sure, but since laminate is made of MDF I took the same value of MDF)

Hi Ro,

I never in my live heard Metalstud profiles weighing close to nothing (thin 0.6 mm steel) expressed in density as you do.
Steel weighs 7800 to 8000 kg/m3.

I assume you calculated the density in function of the volume of your cavity or something?
But that should mean that your cavity is filled with steel for a factor 4800/8000 = 60%

????????????????????????

Whoops, found the error. Somewhere (too early) I devided 8000 with 0.6 (which is 4800)

Difference in total: about 200Kg.
So, load of the walls and floor is about 3250Kg, give or take.

[Ro]

Prep and a little demo time.

Acoustic test
Tomorrow I've got a acoustic-test scheduled. This test is to get my permit and to get insight in where the weakpoints are in the building (which I already know..) Furthermore the test results will be used by the municipal of the city I live in to see if 2 of the 3 rooms can be temp re-opened.

(as stated earlier, the whole rehearsal building is closed by that same municipal due to complains from neighbors. As only the top floor room radiates to much sound we're trying to proof that the rooms on floor 1 and 2 will be close within sound limits.. sort of. We're still doing a whole make over, but we're already closed for 5 months. That means a whole bunch of bands can't do what the love to do so much: make music)
So the test will proof that next door neighbors, that live 2 stories high (like our room on floor 2) will barely hear any noise. We've already checked that with those ppl, they never complaind while bands were rehearsing at floor 1 or 2.

Ahwell...... Beef it up
Prior to the acoustic test I wanted to do some extra beef-ups. There were still some very very weak points on floor 1. The Liveroom will be totally rebuild but there's also the smoking/relax area on that floor which needed some extra beef.
The windows for example, they were fixed last week (check earlier posts) by adding another pane.

There's also a hatch (some sort of emergency exit) which is a serious leak. It's made of a wood frame with a 1/10" (2,5mm) plywood sheet without any wool between it. It has no mass, that's close to nothing for soundisolation. So we removed them and replaced it with 15mm MDF and added wool. Also placed an extra frame (as in tresshold) on the inside with weatherstrips (we didn't use any sealant tho... have to do that later)

Here's a picture to back up my words (It's my buddy adding the extra frame.)
Wow, the hatch "feels" heavier already. So by now I've got the weakest weakpoints covered yet, the windows and the hatch.

[Ro]

Demo, sort of...

There a a bunch of windows on the 3rd floor which have no functions since there's extra walls on the inside (see 1st photo). Those haven't been in maintenance for wel... atleast 15 years (that's how long I'm in the building already). It's a rental and the landlord didn't do ziltch about the building unless I complained. (well to be honest, we're not paying much rent so I can't even complain that much)
These windows now start falling down, very dangerous. A few months ago the first glass pane dropped and 2 last week a whole windowframe dropped out of it's hinges, the wood is totally rotten! (see picture 2 and 3) Whow! the horror! (yup, that's really really bad)

The landlord agreed to remove the windows and put bricks in. (well, we were gonna do that anyhow). But that will not be done untill demo time (so there's better access from the inside of the building)
In the meantime this harzardous situation has to be solved! So, we removed the most rotten parts. About 10 pieces of glass were removed while some wood was re-fastened with some nails (altho the wood is rotten, some did hold the long nails..pweh) Check pix 4 & 5.

[Ro]

Acoustic Test Done
Today I we had a acoustic test scheduled, done by a profesional acoustic engineer. His name is Serge and is an extremely nice person, we had a great time and talked about the whole project and musical interests. Serge agreed to participate a little in my plans without any extra costs(!) He's a musician himself and opted to spend some sparetime on my project. What a nice guy

The measurements took place this morning from 6:30 till about 9:30. All 3 floors where measured on the in and the outside. It was obvious the 3rd floor was one big leak area. (which we already knew). The results are gonna be used to get permits and to give a clue on the noise levels outside while using the rooms on floor 1 and floor 2. We want to be sure not to disturb the neighbors using those 2 floors while bands start rocking like Ozzy.

Results will be in soon I hope....

Here are some pix.
first pic is Serge taking measurements within the room on floor 3 to check pinknoise levels.
2nd is the pinknoise generator
3rd picture shows the dB meter, very high tec
4rd pic's the measuremnt mic, 5 meters high
last pic is Serge taking measurements on floor 2

[Ro]

Okay, it's been a while.
There's lots of developments goin' on which I won't bother ya'll with.

Cunstruction planning is comming together. I've put all my plans and ideas into a 3D concept with Sketchup.
currently planning HVAC. I'll do 2 air pipes, 1 in, 1 out. Dunno if both of them will be active. Atleast one of'm.

I was thinking, can I put both pipes in the corner and built a bass-trap arround them? For example a "superchunk" where the wool not only absorbs frq but will also demp the air-pipe.

Or wil bass frqs just "escape" through this pipe and transfer through the building?

any thoughts on that?

[AndreasB]

Ro!

How's the progress on your build? I'm very curious about how you manage to separate the floor levels acoustically and all that, I'd guess it's a handfull, just wanted to bump this to see if someone come's up with some new and vital info on this..

best

a

[Ro]

Hey, good thinking about bumping this thread

There's some actions still going on:
- design, I've pretty much completed the design for the multi level building. It's NOT going to be studio quality, it's rehearsal rooms. The floors gonna have beef up, isolation wise, by adding mass to the floor and ceiling parts.
- Acoustical design's in progress. I''ll finish it when the construction's done.
- Money: ah, there's an issue. Currently awaiting subsidies... We have about 6,000 euro already. But budget's about 20.000...
- Meanwhile I've seen another great building which is a bit more space, but all on groundlevel! About 3 times more rent than my current building
I'll see if it's worth. Meanwhile...
- Phase 1 is at hand: cleaning up the current building and removing walls etc. Deadline's end of may. Hope we make it....
Ofcourse I'll take pix, even just to keep Keith of my back, LOL.

So, nothing new here.