rehearsal space in existing tin shed

[neilstar]

Hi Steve ,

i just been researching the bradford soundscreen batts, did you use the new generation soundscreen R3.1 batts 110mm thick,

cheers Neil

[stevev]

yep, that's them Neil, and yep it's expensive. Especially for the volume of material that a studio requires. Check out this link and go to the last option under 'C' which is CSR bradford insulation density.

http://www.insulationindustries.com.au/ ... rdion.aspx


It will probably confirm your suspicions about the gold-batts. they come in at around 12kg/m3 at best.

In my research of Australian insulation manufacture I came up with two options for my build. One - bradford soundscreen at 24kg/m3 and Two - Fletcher insulation semi-ridgid FI 32 which comes in at 32kg/m3. I went for the bradford in the wall/ceiling cavities as that was the largest volume I needed and I got a good price because I was buying all the plaster from the same supplier as well. I used FI 32 for all the internal control room surfaces as I felt that it was of paramount importance to have the best possible product in the control room for acoustic control. I think my plan paid off extremely well in the acoustics departmet but the financial department is another story

If you thought the soundscreen was expensive you might have a heart-attack when you look at the FI 32

It really is a matter of 'you get what you pay for' when it comes to insulation as it's the density that counts.

[Roguejackal]

The way you describe it, it sounds like you have 'pieces' of sarking which will be pooling condensation on to your timber battens. Probably not a major problem in the short term but the long term could be different.

Exactly! That's the concern with any unventilated roof. Condensation inside the air space can cause long-term problems, and so can the very high temperatures. A tin roof with no ventilation underneath can cause pretty extreme temperatures up there, which the construction materials are not able to withstand for very long without suffering degradation.

And on the note of HVAC, I've installed two Daiken 'ururu sarara' units in my studio that also do air exchange. I've been running them for a couple of months now and I've got to say they are brilliant for the studio.

Just wondering if you have done any final acoustic testing on your room, Steve, to see how much isolation you are getting, and how the room response is looking, for each of the rooms? I'm real interested in how well those Daiken units handle isolation through their air exchange system.




- Stuart -

If my sons band have a practice tomorrow and i'm about il try and get a db reading standing outside where the pipework comes out the building and joins up to the outside unit

Actually did this last night, only with my iphone app DB meter Pro on C weighting inside the room maximum was 117db while the band were playing, outside with the phone 50mm away from the open end of the drip pipe 62db, now I think this is pretty good when you think that the nearest neighbours house to this point would be at least 15m away,
I am also wondering if it is possible to pipe this 20mm drip pipe into a conventional drain pipe below ground wether this would then cut the db figure down even more especially if the drip pipe was insulated with foam pipe insulation to below ground?

[stevev]

only with my iphone app DB meter

Stuart has busted me on this one before Those mic's don't really have the capability to do this kind of measurment accurately. After being busted using the I-phone, I went out and bought a galaxy sound meter and A/B'd it with my I-phone.....at some frequencys it was 10-15db out (generally lower frequencys).

[Roguejackal]

I know what your saying , what model did you get by the way?

[stevev]

Galaxy CM 140. calibrated by cross spectrum labs. very useful

[neilstar]

hi steve, stuart, insulation question again, do you think there will be a real difference on the final isolation results, with different insulation being used, i realise the 48kg/m3 is ideal, but expensive to purchase, im going to use 22mm ply, and a layer of 16mm fyrcheck maybe even 2 layers of fyrcheck on the internal wall frame,
my question is ? im looking for best option, obviously i would like to just use light weight ,free insulation and just fill the 300mm air space between the walls with light weight insulation, or how much better would the end isolation results be with a layer of 110mm bradford acoustic batts, rated approx 25kg/m3 and fill the other 190mm air gap with the lighter insulation, or should i fill the entire 300mm air gap with the heaviest/dense insulation i can afford

any help or comments are much appreciated , Thank you Neil

[stevev]

i realise the 48kg/m3 is ideal

For cavity isolation I believe it's more like 30 kg/m3 for fiberglass.

im going to use 22mm ply, and a layer of 16mm fyrcheck maybe even 2 layers of fyrcheck on the internal wall frame

as an internal layer that sounds great to me. one 22mm ply and one/two 16mm fyrcheck will do some excellent isolation for you. That also has to extend to your internal ceiling as well though. You'll really have to do your homework on what you use to support all that weight.

obviously i would like to just use light weight ,free insulation and just fill the 300mm air space between the walls with light weight insulation

again, you'll need someone with a bit more expertise on this than me but i'll give you my gut-feeling anyhow. At 300mm you have an excellent cavity between your internal/external leaves. If the main concern is budget, then I would say to use the free stuff to fill the whole cavity even thought it's light weight. Then use the $'s you saved on insulation to do the double layer of fyrcheck as I think the extra density of the internal leaf would help your isolation more than a single layer of beefed up insulation.

Having said all that, the best option for isolation is going to be to fill the entire cavity with 30ish kg/m3 fiberglass and also do the ply and double layer fyrcheck all round. And funnily enough that's the most expensive option which is generally the case with building a studio It really does come down to what you can afford VS what you need in terms of isolation.

...and which sealant are you using for all of this?

[neilstar]

Hi steve thanks for reply,

regarding what is supporting the weight, builder has been looking at what i been doing, and ive told him exactly what im putting on the walls and ceiling, he went away and has told me to use a certain size LVL beam, rafters 190x45, double wall studs under every rafter,

ok, i hope stuart can reply with his thoughts on using the light weight insulation for the entire cavity and 1 layer of 22mm ply and 2 layers of 16mm fyrcheck, would the extra density of the internal leaf help isolation more than a single layer of beefed up insulation. as steve said??


sealant ???? with the outside mass, i used an Acrylic Gap Sealant, says white, flexible weatherproof seal, paintable and durable sealant
i used between all joints, corners, gaps, used it around the frame where i have boxed it in, any little tiny gaps or cracks i shoved it in there, from local bunnings store,
is there a specific sealant/caulk you could recommend for best results, that i should/would use on all of the internal linnings,
what is it called and where is it available in australia?

thanks again Neil

[stevev]

he went away and has told me to use a certain size LVL beam, rafters 190x45, double wall studs under every rafter

yeah, that sounds pretty good to me Neil.

is there a specific sealant/caulk you could recommend for best results, that i should/would use on all of the internal linnings,
what is it called and where is it available in australia?

the brand I used was the Green Glue Acoustic Sealant. Go to the GG website and you'll find the Australian distributor. It comes in the large caulk tubes so works out around the same price per volume as any other sealant, but it's specifically made for this kind of work. I think I went through 3-4 dozen tubes on my build at around 50 sq/m floor area.

[neilstar]

thanks again steve, will have a look

cheers

[neilstar]

Hi steve, the gg sealant is used in all joints and any little gaps around edges, $138.60 for a box of 12, is that about right?
did you use the gg compound as well between layers of gyrock, the compound stuff is like $308 for a box of 12

cheers Neil

[stevev]

yep, those prices sound right to me Neil.

I did use the GG compund on the middle leaf of my three leaf ceiling to try to get as much isolation as I could for my outer shell. My walls are brick and my external roof is tin. I did some isolation tests once the GG leaf was up and it appears that 2 layers of fyrcheck with GG and hung on reilient mounts gives as much isolation as single skin brick wall.

It isn't cheap though I think I used just under 3 tubes per sheet which ended up being 3-4 cases I think. Check out my build thread under Other Studios-Dog & Bear studio. There's a bit on it around page 3-5 or so if you want a bit more detail.

[neilstar]

i just read through yr thread steve, wow, what a great looking studio yr building, well done, i will keep watching for more updates, plenty of cash and hard work gone into that, wish i had that sorta cash to throw at it, but i think im gonna slow down, and try to do it better the first time, so i hope you dont mind me continually asking dumb questions, the information i have been recieving from this forum regarding building a soundproof room is invaluable, thank you

cheers Neil

[stevev]

i think im gonna slow down, and try to do it better the first time

best way to do it and you'll thank yourself later I got planning approval for my 'workshop' at the end of 2009. It's now 2013 Having said that, the last 18months have really been the stage where I've been doing most of the actual build.