John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Cold wrote:Brien, I appreciate the fact you keep me honest.

I appreciate that you guys even put up with me:)

I'm planning to fix 1" battens to the outside and fit 25mm rigid foam insulation (kingspan) in between the battens. I'll then add a breather membrane before nailing the cladding to battens. This should prevent moisture getting to the concrete blocks,

What is being suggested is what Cold has suggested in another thread. What you are doing is installing a drainage plain after the thermal benefits of the kingspan/insulation.

What is often considered is that you should have an air space (here we go again) between the drainage plane and the back of the exterior siding ( primed on all sides) of at least 1/8 of an inch.

[I said this and it posted to your account...what?]

Brien

To soundMan & jdh re rod gervais external cladding. what does rod mean by "sheathing"?

in other words - add your battens - then, in between them, install some rigid foam insulation the same thickness as the battens - then when you install your sheathing over that (prior to installing your siding) the bricks/batten/sheathing/siding will be one leaf........

To cold

Quick question, how much space do you have around the outside of you building.Do you have room for thermal insulation on the exterior? I assumed you didn't from the posted pictures and that may have been a faulty assumption.

Answer: Only 2 sides of the outer studio wall are accessible due to it being constructed very close to and end of terrace house one side and a brick wall on another. I am hoping that the closeness of the house and wall will offer some protection for those 2 sides from the elements ( rain mainly )
I can insulate the 2 open sides of the studio up to a depth of 20 mm plus 18 mm timber cladding on top. I cant go any deeper than 20 mm because of the planning Permission for the external dimensions of the structure.
 I notice kingspan do a rigid insulation which is 20 mm would it be worth insulating the 2 open sides i can get to?

what does rod mean by "sheathing"?

Sheathing is normally something like plywood, OSB or something similar.

- Stuart -

Hi Steve,

On construction sites in the UK that I have worked on some of the buildings and houses have been built with a outside skin of brick/block at a 100mm thick with anything from a 70mm-100mm cavity and the an inside skin of 100mm x 50mm or 150mm x 50mm timber stud, these prefabricated studs are lifted straight of the lorry by crane into place and within a very short time all the interier walls are up.
The bricklayers then build the outside skin attaching rockwool cavity batts in the cavity. Some buildings have just brick work for the outside skin some areblockwork an render, some are block with timber battens and hard insulation with a timber or upvc cladding with a breathable membrane.
The inside studs are filled with rockwool insulation and then 15mm soundcheck plasterboard is used for the walls. They are then ever jointed and sanded down or plaster skimmed.

I am doing similar to this except on my studs I will first attach 15mm osb then 2 layers of 19mm plasterboard, same for the ceiling.
I am not an expert but thought this would be ok as it is normal practice on sites that I have worked on fingers crossed.

Is there a poly vapour barrier under the drywall or no interior vapour barrier?

Steve

On the house builds on site the boarders staple a light gauge clear polythene up after the studs have been filled with rockwool.
I am interested to hear what Brein recommends as I am about to start boarding myself?

jdh wrote: I'm planning to fix 1" battens to the outside and fit 25mm rigid foam insulation (kingspan) in between the battens. I'll then add a breather membrane before nailing the cladding to battens. This should prevent moisture getting to the concrete blocks, ensure that the cladding doesn't constitute an additional leaf and provide some valuable insulation. Thanks to Rod Gervais for this suggestion.

What is being suggested is what Cold has suggested in another thread. What you are doing is installing a drainage plain after the thermal benefits of the kingspan/insulation.

What is often considered is that you should have an air space (here we go again) between the drainage plane and the back of the exterior siding ( primed on all sides) of at least 1/8 of an inch.

Hi folks thanks for everything so far its been invaluable advice which has shown me where and what to research. Here is an excellent article which seems to pin things down all the cladding options very well.

http://www.greenspec.co.uk/rainscreen-cladding.php

If you don't want to read the whole thing the nitty gritty on exterior cladding a brick or concrete block structure is.....

Timber Cladding / air gap (ideally 19mm) / kingspan type insulation / breather membrane / wall

So that (hopefully?) seems to be the outside sorted......Crikey I haven't even got to the inside stuff yet this is going to be a lot longer job than I first thought!

Crikey I haven't even got to the inside stuff yet this is going to be a lot longer job than I first thought!

Welcome to the world of studio design and construction! Take the amount of time you first estimated, and multiply by a random number between 5 and 50, then add in yesterdays date, throw in a few extra bits for good luck, maybe add a zero or two... You get the idea! (Oh, and the same rule applies to your budget... )

- Stuart -

shabby road wrote:Hi folks thanks for everything so far its been invaluable advice which has shown me where and what to research. Here is an excellent article which seems to pin things down all the cladding options very well.

http://www.greenspec.co.uk/rainscreen-cladding.php

If you don't want to read the whole thing the nitty gritty on exterior cladding a brick or concrete block structure is.....

Timber Cladding / air gap (ideally 19mm) / kingspan type insulation / breather membrane / wall

So that (hopefully?) seems to be the outside sorted......Crikey I haven't even got to the inside stuff yet this is going to be a lot longer job than I first thought!

I know how you feel I think its now 2 years since I first started designing and then building my shed with the studio in mind, I'm hoping to be complete by the summer of 2013 but you never know

Carl

Hi Folks
Here is an update of extremely tight space that is shabby road (internal space after treatment will end up approx D:1.7m x W:3m x H:2.2m) As you can see from the photo the external cladding and breather membrane is on so it looks all pretty but the guts are still in flux.
I just can’t get around the 3/4” external wooden roof problem and have looked into the open cell spray foam coating suggested on this forum but it’s not really UK friendly very few people offering the service and at very high prices.

I have settled on the much dreaded 3 leaf compromise (outlined below and shown in the diagram) i wanted your views before I commence.

-The existing roof is thin so adding 18mm sheathing to the underside of the roof between the joists
-The existing roof needs ventilation to avoid mould/rot in our damp UK climate so I have to leave airflow through the soffit to supply air to each of the rafter bays where joists meet roof.
-Fitting a false ceiling consisting of 2 x layers of 15mm plasterboard to the underside of the joists with 100mm Rockwool (45kg per M3) between the joists.
-My inner room will be formed under this structure see drawing for detail.

My questions are will this 3 leaf system I seem forced to live with work ok can it be improved on without taking the roof off and any better suggestions or tweaks?

Many Thanks
Tim

I have settled on the much dreaded 3 leaf compromise (outlined below and shown in the diagram) i wanted your views before I commence.

That looks fine to me, from the acoustic isolation point of view, so maybe Brien can comment on the ventilation point of view. I think you would be OK with that, but Brien is the guy who understands ventilation, vapor barriers, moisture barriers, water proofing, and all those kinds of things. I suspect you might need to protect that rockwool with plastic somehow, and maybe substitute OSB for the top layer of drywall. I think. But Brien is the guy to help you there.

My questions are will this 3 leaf system I seem forced to live with work ok can it be improved on without taking the roof off and any better suggestions or tweaks?

It should be fine. I don't have the time to do the math right now, to predict the outcome, but I'll try to do that tomorrow. Worst case: you might need an extra layer or two of OSB on the middle leaf, or larger air gaps, or a combination. But the basic plan you have there should work, if done right. Three-leaf can work, as long as you compensate correctly.


Brien? You around?


- Stuart -

Can I apply it to the apartments at my nursing home, here is the image of my apartment :
Please give me any advices!

timjn wrote:Can I apply it to the apartments at my nursing home, here is the image of my apartment :https://threelinks.org/wp-content/uploa ... g_13-1.jpg Please give me any advices!

You want to build a recording studio in a nursing home??? That would be a first! If you have enough money, I guess you could do that.

Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things!

- Stuart -