John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Brien - what we discussed was a decoupled room within a room approach to mitigate the flanking as much as possible to solve an issue due to low frequency rumbling from trucks. The question at hand is the ceiling with an enclosed air space potentially being a third leaf effect and how we might relieve the air spring on the upper section. Then adding the mass layers in existing and new inner ceiling, inner ceiling resting on decoupled wall frames, and a damped floor inside. Not ideal but should be reasonably effective given budget and time.

First off, I appreciate the help very much. This is a real gift that you give and I am grateful.

Our plan was to carpet the multipurpose room to dampen the footfall noise adjacent to the control/tracking room. Not ideal for a studio live room, but that will probably be a rare useage of the multipurpose room. Once the control room is done, I can focus on the deck below it; add insulation from underneath, RC and sheetrock. There's plenty to do meanwhile with the rest of the building and time to finalize the design. I'm impatient as everyone is, but old enough to know better and will take the time to do it right. And you guys will probably warn me (if I give you a chance) before I do anything dumb.

Thanks

I appreciate that Glenn, and your work here.

Low rumble in a wooden structure works because it is moving the structure. If another assembly is built, even enclosed room, doesn't the same low frequency rumble still have ability to vibrate the structure, hit all the flanking paths/windows/openings, and pretty much negate what we tried to achieve?

Rc/clips/hat track on the walls and ceilings...I know, less than ideal to reiterate and a loss in low frequency isolation, but wouldn't that actually allow a better opportunity at making the existing paths decoupled? And this might be one of those areas where green glue would be a big help to gain back some of what is lost by this attempt...not that I know if that stuff is any good or not, but if it is...this would be a place to use it.

In an upstairs wood framed room, the low frequency actually has more time to develop across more wall area and create more vibrations...it's always shaking stuff.

Would it be better to go ahead and take the existing ceiling down, rather than attempt to make holes?

And...if the ceiling is complete...the walls are...?

agree, the existing wooden structure will / is the main source of vibration so trying to decouple from that is about all you can do even if you can add additional mass to the existing structure to help reduce its natural resonances.

A few questions.

1. Sources for the neoprene? Any substitutes?

2. Is there any negative effect (double walls) if the outer wall is 2x6 construction and the inner is 2x4 or vice versa? Is it better if they are the same materials and mass? I'd like to have a 2x6 wall under that old ceiling beam.

3. Also thinking about the need for drapes for acoustic accuracy over the one and only sliding glass door (left of mix position) and wondering if the concept in the drawing below would work?

Partially splayed walls and no glass to the right of mix position. The inside dimensions would be approx 12' x 17' with 8' ceiling Update: We're insulating the attic tommorow (Feb 15) Dragging a 300 pound insulation blower up 3 flights of stairs was fun. Had to shovel 2 feet of snow off part of the barn roof. The phone lines were buried in them. Ahh.......life in Vermont.

the room design you show is workable in that space. you can use a heavy drape over the door when needed. you can use 2x6 instead of 2x4, in fact using the 2x6 is probably the better approach overall. for the isolators, check out Mason Industries ND-A black http://www.mason-industries.com/masonin ... pdf/ND.pdf or NPS http://www.mason-industries.com/masonin ... si21v1.pdf. otherwise something like 3/4" neoprene 30 hardness strips between the runners http://www.rubbercal.com/Sponge.html 4119-N Closed Cell Neoprene

I had hoped the drapes be eliminated?
Thanks for the info.

you can try it without the drapes but as a general rule less reflections in the mix space the better, if you angle the doors, then it may not be needed.

So if we frame it something like this, with one 5 foot sliding glass door....and treat the sealed room afterwards, would there be any problems? Any suggestions?

nope, i think that will be a great first start.

It is an elevated wooden environment.

I have a wooden table in my kitchen and whenever drinking buddy slaps his beer onto the table...I feel it second but hear it first...actually it is difficult to tell which happens first.

That wooden table is your floor.

Room in a room is not the voo-doo treatment to cure all ills. An elevated structure requires far more than what you seem to be bent on with this build.

Now you can move forward thinking that you are doing what is required, but you are working on information that applies to an earth damped structure.

Everything, and I mean everything you do...in this build, will attache it right back to itself...completely removing the benefit of higher isolation...costing you more and have you thinking you have a better spent monies...and you will not.

Brien - the inner room is the isolation walls and decoupled and the floor is a damped membrane. without the ability to add a cement floor or restructuring the building what other options are there for this? ideally, rebuilding the floor as a completely isolated and massive structure for the room to sit on would be best but not in the budget...

If I were Joe Rock Star, I'd might have the budget to ..............., I'd move to Maui, why would I want to do this in poorest part of Vermont. I just happen to have a 2 and a half story 30'x50' building attached to my house and I'd like to move my recording equipment out of the cramped bedroom.

The deck we built is isolated farely well, not touching the old existing walls or the adjacent decking, and it is sitting on a brand spanking new, rock solid 10' feet below the road, concrete foundation. It won't be perfect but it will be good enough for me. If not, I can hit undo and hit re-record. No biggie. Brien, you are right. If this were a pro studio.............if it were a pro studio, it wouldn't be here in the first place.

External acoustic noise is my biggest issue. Flanking noise within the building is not. There are only 2 people living in this this third world mansion. As I stated earlier, I'm not willing to give up my garage below. It's fricking Vermont, 8 months of winter. Parking the car inside my first priority. Anything will be better than what I currently have.

The boom truck came with the first load of sheet rock and 2x6 lumber which we unloaded directly onto the 2nd floor though a window. We spent the day installing the first layer of 5/8" sheetrock into the pockets between the studs of the north wall using copious amounts of acoutical caulking. Can actually hear the difference already.

I've been taking photos and will post soon. But I quit for the day, its been a long week of construction and we're all covered in white powder, (NOT the kind that rock stars use OR the kind that scares politicians in the US)

Here are a couple of photos showing the north wall with tongue and groove removed
and 2 layers of sheetrock with acoustic sealant in every nook and cranny. Interesting framing from previous owner