John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hello...

OK, it appears the drawing of my control room is stirring some controversy. Let me explain it some...

The Blue line that Ozzie has on the outer wall, is the existing foundation of the house. Concrete Block.

The Orange lines he has drawn, is the "outer shell" so to speak of the control room. This is new construction. Only one side of this has drywall.

The inner splayed walls, I haven't a clue yet what to use for these. I'm going to assume that the front walls where soffits will be, is going to have MDF in parts or all of it? The splayed wall on the left side of the control room, I don't know if this needs to be drywalled, insulated and covered w/ a peg board, or just insulated and covered w/ cloth. I'm not sure how to allow the low frequencies into that corner for use as a bass trap.????

I'm not counting the inner splayed walls as a leaf, as it's being used more to tune the room. What I am considering as a leaf, is the outter wall around the control room, and then the wall running parallel to the wall on the right of the control room (between CR and tracking room) this is the double wall theory...mass space mass... Same thing between the back of the control room and the iso room...mass space mass in the double wall construction.

Part of the reason why this is set up the way it is...When I bought this house this last year...it has a moisture problem. It was a fully finished basement, but...4 days living in the house, I put my hand on the wall...and well, I went right through it. And although I rerouted the drainage of the gutters away from the house, and spent a fortune on using drylock, etc to keep the water out...I'm seeing it start to come through already in a few spots, (and no thanks to the nearby blasting causing cracks) and so this is why everything (the walls & floor) is completely away from the foundation of the house. I wanted enough room so the room can breath w/ a dehumidifier running in another area that will pull that moisture out, and not rot my new construction.


There are some additional pix on the same thread as to the construction of the walls. If need be, I'll repost them here w/ some modifications.

Also, the 3D picture isn't completely finished. I still haven't angled the front walls for soffits. I will be working on the drawing hopefully this week and improving it some. With any luck, I'll be starting the framing on the CR this weekend.

I hope this clears some of the questions regarding the design. And I may be wrong on some of what I mentioned about the splayed walls. Maybe Steve can clarify this a little better about the design??

Thanks,
Aaron

Aaronw, did you get the stamp of approval from Steve yet on your design because I wanna know if this right so I can start moving on to a diffrent subject.

If you did get the stamp of approval can you help me out?

Steve- I know your very busy but can you hit me back with some info on Aaronw design because I was so close to finaly understand this wall and soffit thing?

Thank You
Ozzie

P.S.
Steve can you take a look at my last picture and question when you have the time.

Hey Ozzie,

I can't remember if Steve or John gave the stamp or not. I know in the design forum, I was really close to this design, and they made some suggestions (splayed wall layout). This particular layout is based around the recommendations for doing 5.1. Although I'm probably still another year or two from having the ability to do 5.1 (all my money is tied up in construction), I decided to plan ahead for it, knowing I was intending to go that direction. So I've got all the conduit chases, etc. already there under the floor.

What can I help you out with?

Aaron

Hello Aaron, say, I'm no expert on this surround stuff, but you should read this. If anything its interesting, and actually has some REALLY enlightening information regarding surround.
http://world.std.com/~griesngr/paris.pdf

fitZ

Guys, Aaron is on target with his ideas for what is a "leaf", etc - Since there are already two leaves up, I wouldn't even worry about hermetic sealing on the splayed walls; they (with the exception of the front soffits) could be just a light 1/2" gypsum with the insulation set up to dampen the panels, and it should lessen the need for as much bass trapping. The soffits themselves need to be as stiff as you can make them, as I've mentioned before. 1-1/8" ply over 2x6's is NOT overkill for speaker flush mounts, you do NOT want them trying to become passive woofers.

Ozzie, what else do you need? I'm probably gonna be close to this busy for the next several months, but I'll try to keep up as much as I can. Last time I tried to catch up with Aaron, he had about 125 questions for me - gotta check in to see how that's going, then back outside while the good weather lasts... Steve

Hey Steve,

Yeah, just a few questions on the other thread...

Who usually carries the 1 1/8" ply? Do the lumber yards usually carry this? Or is this more of a custom order issue?

Let me ask this, should I use the thick ply or would it be just as good if not better to use MDF?

Looking at your comment, are you suggesting to use Wood 2x6's for the front soffit wall, or will 2x4's be sufficient? Or are steel studs OK?

In building the soffit wall, I'm intending on using 2 layers of 5/8" for the outer wall. Should I add / line the inside walls of the soffit section w/ the 1 1/8" ply or 3/4" MDF?

I post a diagram of what I mean.

Thanks,

Aaron

The 1-1/8" ply is standard flooring material, available in tongue and groove - runs about $30-$35 a sheet last I checked. You want those soffits as solid as you can make them, to lower resonance and eliminate flex. 8" concrete wouldn't be excessive here, if you had the money. I'd stay with wood 2x6 for those frames, for just that reason. The rest of the splayed walls can be light steel/gypsum for the added panel trap effect.

I'll need your diagram on the soffit question... Steve

Here you go...

No need to line the cavities - your speakers are already in boxes, right? You could, however, use some of that mdf LAMINATED (yes, this once I AM suggesting glueing panels together) to the 1-1/8 ply for a SOLID flush mount.

2x6's for the soffit frames. Are you using Barefoot's soffit plan?

What angle are you planning for your speaker baffles? And, are you planning one for the center channel? Steve

I probably will use barefoots design. I need to research it more.

Angle...Don't know. I guess I need to figure out where I'm sitting, and the distance. Still haven't been able to figure out the Ray Trace thing in autocad. Don't know how to use the Ortho function.

Center channel...Yes.

Need to angle the rear soffits too...

Glueing the MDF...are you talking about glueing mdf on top of the ply? Double layered wall/soffit wall?

Don't know how to use the Ortho function.

Hello Aaron. The ortho function simply allows you to pull perfect x,y lines(90 degrees). Toggle F8, for ortho off/on while in a line command. Then you will see. The @ prefix is your best friend.

fitZ

I know how to turn it on/off. But how do I use it for ray tracing, etc. We're working here w/ everything but 90 deg. angles.

Cadesigner...

You say the @ is my best friend. I don't suppose you can enlighten me on this some? I think I figured out some of the ortho (actually I thing polar), but hadn't used cad much lately.

Steve,

So your suggestion is to not only have 1 1/8" ply, but also laminate another layer (3/4" I assume), of MDF to the outside of the ply?

As far as the angles, I have the "horizontal" angle (if sitting at console 60 degrees...which means 30 degrees when building the wall).

Not sure about where to start angling the vertical. Should I start from the bottom and angle out, or should I start at 5 foot up and begin my angle? (read that on barefoots forum somewhere).

Thanks,

Aaron

Bump...

Didn't get any reply's so I'm bumping it back up. Of course that was about the same time the site changed to the new server.

Thanks.

Aaron

Hello Aaron, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. The bbs doesn't notify me when someone posts on a thread that I've replied to.

Ok, in regards to the @ sign. Do you use Autocad? I didn't mean to sound like a smartass, although when I reread my post, it
DID sound that way. What a jerk. Excuse me. Alright, for starters, I don't know how much you know about Autocad, but here is what I was talking about. When drawing, there are various ways that you can draw lines. One is using the @ sign. When you enter "line" or L or pick a line button, Autocad promps you to tell it where you are "starting" from. This can be done by either co-ordinates, Osnaps, or just pick a point with the curser. Then the program asks where the next POINT is. Or the end of the line. Again, you can just pick a point as you drag the line, or pick various ending points with the Osanps, such as an intersection, a midpoint or endpoint, or perpendicular etc to an existing line. OR, you can say @(at) so many inches, say 120,(and now direction in degrees) <90(the <sign is an angle command) so here is what it would look like at the command promp.
Hit L for line, "enter" ("line" comes up on the command prompt -"select starting point" (which translates as "from" ) Pick a point where you want the line to start from. At that time, the command line promps you for an "end point". Well, where do you want the line to go? That is the key. Say you wanted a line 85" long at 30 degrees......Your command would look like this. @85<30.....and thats it. Or say you wanted it at 60" at 0 degrees. It would look like this. @60<0 Does that make sense. The @ simply means "from the last point" so you don't have to punch in absolute co-ordinates. It is really difficult to illustrate CAD functions on a forum such as this, but there are TONS of CAD forums to help you. Good luck and hope that helps a little.

fitZ