FINISHED IN 2020! Sharward's Partial Garage Conversion

Post by **sharward** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:21 pm

Dan Fitzpatrick wrote:you have some kind of tile on your roof i bet.

Yup. Exactly.

the dreamer · Post by **the dreamer** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:11 pm

Hi Keith,
maybe I'm not the guy you wanted to hear something about that, but like Dan, I thought of some plenum silencers.

Incase you didn't see, Barefoot didi a sketch in the thread you resurrected:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=644

And have a look here:
http://www.customaudiodesigns.co.uk/art ... lation.htm

On the other side I'm not sure if a plenum could help you at all, cause it seems the noise is coming from the unit directly right? (I have no experience with units like this).

It probably won't help much, but below I attached pics from my vent-system, you can see round plenum silencers (lined with 10cm glasswool around). You see the mufflers going to the controlroom. The outlets inside the room are also going to be a special plenum to slow down the airflow.
I hope it's coming out really quiet.

Any chance you get a similar system to the unit you have an eye on you could place in another room and run ducts to the studio like in my system?

Hope you find a pleasent solution!
Greetings
Florian

Post by **sharward** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:10 am

the dreamer wrote:Hi Keith,
maybe I'm not the guy you wanted to hear something about that, but like Dan, I thought of some plenum silencers.

All input welcome, Florian -- yours especially.

Incase you didn't see, Barefoot didi a sketch in the thread you resurrected:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=644

Yup, saw it. Thanks.

And have a look here:
http://www.customaudiodesigns.co.uk/art ... lation.htm

Thanks for that. I had seen that before but it was good seeing it again now that I'm in "HVAC Mode."

On the other side I'm not sure if a plenum could help you at all, cause it seems the noise is coming from the unit directly right? (I have no experience with units like this).

True, it would not quiet down the noise inside the room -- and that's OK. However, I think Dan's concern is that noise generated inside the room may leak outside through the exhaust and intake piping. A silencer box might minimize that.

It probably won't help much, but below I attached pics from my vent-system, you can see round plenum silencers (lined with 10cm glasswool around). You see the mufflers going to the controlroom. The outlets inside the room are also going to be a special plenum to slow down the airflow.

Wow, great photos! Looks like some great workmanship!

Any chance you get a similar system to the unit you have an eye on you could place in another room and run ducts to the studio like in my system?

Yeah, I thought about that. The only adjacent rooms I have are the laundry room (not a candidate because that's considered a "wet spot" in the house, with an exhaust fan -- to condition the air in that room and suck it into the studio would be to "exhaust" the laundry room air into living space, which would not meet code I'm sure), or my office. I suppose I could do something like that in my office, but it seems like a lot of hassle just to have a silent unit. Since the room isn't for recording purposes, I can live with the noise.

Thanks, Florian!

Others, keep it comin'!

Note that my questions about beefing up my exterior wall outer leaf are still open, and I'd appreciate feedback on that as well.

the dreamer · Post by **the dreamer** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:43 am

Note that my questions about beefing up my exterior wall outer leaf are still open, and I'd appreciate feedback on that as well.

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what wonderboard is! I know how to build houses in my area of the big ball but I'm not well informed about the codes and criterion critical in the US.

Good luck
Florian

DreaminDrumBeats · Post by **DreaminDrumBeats** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:02 am

Wonderboard is a concrete and stryofoam balls mixture that is reinforced with a cloth mesh and made into a sheet like drywall but used as another substitute for greenboard (water resistant drywall) I have installed it in a few bathrooms behind replacement shower stalls

the dreamer · Post by **the dreamer** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:31 am

Thanks DreaminDrums!
Have never seen this stuff round here!

Post by **sharward** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:04 am

Here are data sheets for WonderBoard (by Custom Building Products), and a similar/competing product called Durock (by USG Corporation).

Dan Fitzpatrick · Post by **Dan Fitzpatrick** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:18 am

keith,

thanks for the link, i'd been meaning to dig that up myself.

the pdf clearly states that while wonderboard is unaffected by water, it is not waterproof, and does not act as a moisture barrier. so i'm not sure what use it would be in your (or my) situation.

maybe it gives some amount of protection, but for the expense and effort i'm not sure it would be worth doing. that's my gut reaction.

dan

the dreamer · Post by **the dreamer** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:37 am

In my area there one often sees semi permeable dampproof membranes. Basically a sheet where damp can get through only in one direction and is really resistant in the other. For example on a wooden roof construction isolated with wool for preventing damp from the living space to enter the wool and to allow moisture to leave it.

There's also a "intelligent" dampbreak (that's how we call it). It adapts the permeability to the moist.
http://www.hoki.ibp.fraunhofer.de/ibp/p ... mse_e.html

I don't know if such solutions will help you at all, and maybe I tell you nothing new as I didn't follow the last pages in detail....

Florian

Post by **sharward** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:54 am

Thanks for the info on "semi-permeable dampproof membranes," Florian. I'll definitely give that a closer look.

Right now I'm in major HVAC mode!

I changed the layout to incorporate an "HVAC niche" to get the unit out of the way, with hopefully a little bit of clearance on all sides. It also shortens and straightens the pipes connecting to/from the outside. And, yes, I decided to break through the stucco wall. I determined this will be OK because the penetrations will be about 7 to 8 feet off the ground and partially protected by the eaves.

The pipes will still be longer than the recommended 5 feet. Perhaps I can offset the effects of the increased length by increasing the diameter of the piepes, say to 6"?

Stay tuned for more illustrations, including what I have in mind for the "pipe through stucco" situation -- I'm envisioning making a fairly large hole in the stucco and then using large blocks of wood to cover the hole on each side held to the wall with nuts and bolts -- the pipes will go through the wood blocks and caulk will seal the pipe/wood and wood/stucco connections. I'll also draw up some side view detail illustations of the "HVAC Niche."

What do y'all think of this?

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:37 am

Larger diameters will help, not sure how much increase you'd need but probably a couple inches minimum increase.

Only one bend per run??!? Not much attenuation there

Also, how come your NEW car looks just like your OLD one?

Post by **sharward** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:58 am

knightfly wrote:Larger diameters will help, not sure how much increase you'd need but probably a couple inches minimum increase.

OK. I'll source some big PVC and see what my options are.

Only one bend per run??!? Not much attenuation there

Yeah, I know.

This is per the owner's manual:

NOTE: In order to increase the efficiency, the exhaust ducts should be keeping as short and straight as possible. It is not recommended to increase the manufacturer’s length of the exhaust hose. This may impede or damage the unit.

I could manage a couple more 90-degree turns heading towards the wall (i.e., up from unit, then over, then up, then out) -- I just hope that doesn't put too much stress on the unit.

I also plan to insulate the outside of the pipes -- will that help?

Also, how come your NEW car looks just like your OLD one?

I'll fix that on the next iteration!

Steve, I'm also hoping you can answer my questions about beefing up my outer leaf They got kind of buried.

Dan Fitzpatrick · Post by **Dan Fitzpatrick** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:31 pm

each 90 degree turn is like adding several feet to the length of the run. for example the folks at http://www.fantech.net/ (where i'll probably be buying my vent fan) figure 5 feet per 90 degree turn.

this is a good site, you can glean a lot of info from it.

but maybe it can work ok if you have a fan on the exterior pulling at the same time you have the unit pushing. then you could put plenty of length and turns without worrying about static pressure. they have a unit that might work under your eaves too.

i like this company because they provide data showing how much CFM they guarantee at different amounts of static pressure. also many of them are variable speed adjustable.

Post by **sharward** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:57 pm

Dan Fitzpatrick wrote:but maybe it can work ok if you have a fan on the exterior pulling at the same time you have the unit pushing.

Actually, since there's an "incoming" and an "outgoing," I could have one at the end "pushing the incoming" and another at the end "pulling the outgoing."

Like, this one?

Great site, Dan. Thanks!

Ballgame · Post by **Ballgame** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 1:40 am

thank god you dont have to pay per post