John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

yes you basically have the idea, except the basis for the descision is not described as emotional, but as unconscious

sometimes we intuitively understand things before we rationally understand them.

so a "gut" feeling is not something akin to ESP or being "psychic" but just the brain working "behind the scenes" and figuring out stuff before our conscious mind does.

after the fact, we can construct rational (but false) explanations to show that our decision was consciously made when in fact it wasn't. this is shown by clever experiments in the book.

i think that after enough research and banging your head against the wall you will one day realize that one path starts to feel right for some reason. hope so anyway

dan

I gotta' get me that book. After the studio's built though -- I can't fathom more delays!

Wow -- up to 14 pages now!

Folks, if you have yet to weigh in on the "Woodlockesque Proposal," please go back a bit. Thanks!!

Bump... Still hoping for some feedback on the "Woodlockesque Proposal" -- SEE IT HERE (back just a bit). The weekend's coming and I want to really dig into my plans.

Thanks folks!!

so how we doing here? Form the band yet?

Band? Yeah, it's a one-man band named "To Float or Not To Float."

C'mon, guys -- you mean I'm proposing going "full Woodlock," and nobody's got anything to say about that?

You are the only amatuer i have put so much confidence in EVER!! Id love to say your smart or wise, that remains to be seen (as you well know).You too Dan...I thought i didnt know when to give up, now I know I tend to give up much earlier than you. Im still watchin'

Did you say....FULL WOODLOCK?? LIke in 5 layer outer shell, and 7 layer inner shell with a full dig out the floor and pour a new slab with and a FLOATING CONCRETE SLAB WOODLOCK?????? Kieth, I hate to be the one to tell you, but you're obviously suffering from a serious case of brain dehydration......also known as Woodlocks Syndrome, caused by months of intense data and calculation overload, BID and Sound Emission code stress and design concept flip flop, which manifests itself as sensitivity to lack of immediete forum response to fleets of fantasy, plain ole Forum input anxiousness, and bouts of severe ambiguous decision making.

Before deciding this, I suggest you take a few days, rent a cabin at Dillons beach, and rest your brain:lol: .(just kidding with you Kieth, but seriously, hope you know what your getting into here...
Regardless, good luck with the decision. At least you will KNOW what to expect this way.

fitZ

sharward wrote:Bump... Still hoping for some feedback on the "Woodlockesque Proposal" -- SEE IT HERE (back just a bit). The weekend's coming and I want to really dig into my plans.

Thanks folks!!

Shar,

If you've decided that this is the direction you need to go - at least now you understand exactly what it is you're getting into (as opposed to the thought that this could be as simple as an elevated wooden deck) - and should just proceed.

You've gotten enough data to make an intelligent descision - you shouldn't need any one else to prod you...........

So just go for it.........

Sincerely,

Rod

Thanks guys. I guess I was lookin' for a "Naw, you're nuts -- you don't need to go through all that" type of response... Or at least allowing for the opportunity for that to happen.

Instead, I get, basically, "Well, good luck -- you're gonna' need it!"

Anyway... Brain vacation notwithstanding, I'm starting to really "get used to" this approach, though I have yet to commit to it completely.

I have been studying Paul's floating floor construction photos. Honestly, it reminds me of a time when I saw a video of a surgical procedure that I was planning to have done: shock, awe, concern, assurance -- in that order mostly. It's easier to make a decision when you know what's involved in that commitment. I'm getting a clearer sense of what's involved right now.

Questions that I (still) have about the proposed dig-out:

• The footer on my exterior wall and the strutural "house not garage" slab holding up my office/bedroom and laundry room walls meet my existing garage floor with a thin piece of wood -- the garage floor is not a monolithic slab (here's where I use these big words to pretend I know what the f&%* I'm talking about). Is it safe to just jackhammer the existing floor close to the edges? Or could the jackhammering damage these very critical structural features?
  
  How deep do you think the footer and "house not garage" slab go? If less than about two feet, what happens when I dig past the bottoms of these structural features? Am I compromising their integrity by digging down adjacent to them? If my new "sub slab" is lower than the bottoms of those features, would I have to make a concrete "wall," kind of like a small swimming pool? If so, would that "wall" start at or under those features? If "under," that means I'd have to scape out earth beneath those weight-bearing features, which my gut tells me is a very bad idea -- but not doing that would cause me to lose precious square footage around the perimeter of my finished room. Maybe instead of a wall, I could get away with a thick plastic sheet -- the same sheet that would go beneath the new subfloor slab to keep moisture out. Then, instead of a "pool," it's more like those "pond kits" that are so popular nowadays in my part of the world.

See why I'm so nervous about this?

I suppose I should contact the company that did the concrete work for my house... Many of these concerns may be moot!

I suppose I should contact the company that did the concrete work for my house

Man, I love cut and paste (BTW, I'm abusing your musing 'cause that's what you should be using...)

Or, to put it another way, WHAT??!? you mean you still haven't DONE that??!?

Instead, I get, basically, "Well, good luck -- you're gonna' need it!"

Hey Kieth, sorry if my response was less than encourageing. My reply was NOT ment in that way. Your "bump" prompted me to inject an attemp at humor. Since so much has come to light regarding the reality of various solutions you have gone through, I personally have become very gunshy to suggest things one way or another anymore. Which is why I hadn't brought up the subject of water collecting in a lowered slab solution.

I think you have come to understand the pros and cons of all this stuff.......except for what you are now thinking...which is what I thought a long time ago, due to my experience with not only a cracked slab, but moisture COLLECTING in small pools UNDER my floated floor. Of course, this was an old outbuilding "garage" and the slab was level with grade. During the first extreme rain storm, I actually had to trench around the exterior perimeter of the footing, to drain the water off to a lower grade about 20' away from the building. Even then, I guess because of the cracking, water weeped to the interior, as the trenches filled with water faster than it would run off during extreme rain. It was only when I demo'ed the studio that I found the cracks and water It already smelled of mildew prior to demo'ing it.

In that light, I THINK you might have a valid concern here. Although I'm hesitant to stick my neck out anymore, I am of the opinion, seeing as you have a clay bed, and knowing Sacramento weather sometimes, that this is quite possible. Perhaps as you say, maybe use a thick visquine layer like a pool liner completely sealing out moisture, although I haven't got a clue what BID will have to say to this as its a decoupled slab with another FLOATED slab above, its quite un-orthodox RESIDENTIAL construction. At least to me. It would SEEM as though they would require some kind of connection of the new support slab to the existing footing, although I don't know how that could be done. Maybe it's a moot point though. Anyway, just wanted to throw my .02 concern into the circus ring and apologize if my humor wasn't what you needed at the moment. I think given the enormity of this decision, most people familiar with this thread have also grown gunshy, as the last reply from mikeklooster kind of illustrates.

No doubt this decision weighs heavy, as this is a very expensive undertaking, which I think has been the main concern all along. Perhaps, a thorough analysis of the costs involved as well as a talk with BID will support a correct decision. If you DO choose to do this, I wish you all the luck, and EAGERLY look forward to YOUR DIARY, as Eric NEEDS another to fill Pauls diary ENTERTAINMENT vacancy when done
fitZ

PS. I'm STILL wondering though, since Paul has a brick exterior, and had to HANG 5 LAYERS OF DRYWALL from the existing roof support to match the TL of the garage exterior, WHAT ABOUT THAT?? This is exactly why I asked about how these exterior shells relate to the INTERIOR shell as far as TL is concerned. Paul had the equivelent of TWELVE layers total.
This is why I'm wondering how your project would actually match what Paul achieved, considering your existing shell. Just curious.

knightfly wrote:WHAT??!? you mean you still haven't DONE that??!?

Yes and no... I did contact them to get information about my existing garage slab -- thickness, mix, reinforcements. What I did not ask them about (because it wasn't relevant to me at the time) was how deep all the "non garage slab" stuff goes.

cadesignr wrote:. . . sorry if my response was less than encourageing. My reply was NOT ment in that way. Your "bump" prompted me to inject an attemp at humor.

Hey Fitz -- first of all, my "thanks guys" was not sarcasm -- I always appreciate the input, including (and sometimes especially) the humorous stuff. "Perspective."

. . . I personally have become very gunshy to suggest things . . .

Yes, I totally understand. My order is a tall one, not only in terms of TL requirements, but also satisfying the bureaucrats, and it's understandable that you guys would be hesitant to recommend or fully endorse anything anymore.

. . . my experience with not only a cracked slab, but moisture COLLECTING in small pools UNDER my floated floor. . . I THINK you might have a valid concern here. . . seeing as you have a clay bed, and knowing Sacramento weather sometimes . . .

Yup.

. . . maybe use a thick visquine layer like a pool liner completely sealing out moisture, although I haven't got a clue what BID will have to say to this as its a decoupled slab with another FLOATED slab above, its quite un-orthodox RESIDENTIAL construction. At least to me. It would SEEM as though they would require some kind of connection of the new support slab to the existing footing, although I don't know how that could be done. . . Perhaps, a thorough analysis of the costs involved as well as a talk with BID will support a correct decision.

Good idea, fitZ. Maybe I just need to draw up a few different scenarios (submerged float, elevated float, flush isolated) and get their input on each one -- not in terms of expense or difficulty, but in terms of getting their sign-off. It may be that all of this is moot, regardless of expense or difficulty. I just want to limit my exposure to the bureaucrats because (1) I don't want to be perceived as a pesky pain-in-the-ass (or, as Paul would put it, pain-in-the-arse ) and, as such, I may be less likely to be treated well if/when the going gets tough, and (2) the doorway seems taller when I leave compared to when I arrived... An optical illusion?

If you DO choose to do this, I wish you all the luck, and EAGERLY look forward to YOUR DIARY, as Eric NEEDS another to fill Pauls diary ENTERTAINMENT vacancy when done

I am totally up for that challenge -- although I'm considering doing an actual "blog" rather than posting every little detail on the forum(s).

I'm STILL wondering though, since Paul has a brick exterior, and had to HANG 5 LAYERS OF DRYWALL from the existing roof support to match the TL of the garage exterior, WHAT ABOUT THAT?? This is exactly why I asked about how these exterior shells relate to the INTERIOR shell as far as TL is concerned. Paul had the equivelent of TWELVE layers total.
This is why I'm wondering how your project would actually match what Paul achieved, considering your existing shell. Just curious.

Good question, fitZ, and one that I have been contemplating as well.

First of all, I believe Paul's panels are thinner (1/2" vs. 5/8"), so mine will be kind of like "install four, get one free." (Even if it's cheaper with 1/2" boards, it's 25% more work, and 25% more inspections required -- yes, each layer will need to be inspected and signed off.)

Anyway, I'm looking at up to 5 layers of 5/8" gypsum wallboard (or equivalent) on each leaf. 3/4" OSB is about the same weight, and I may substitute that for one or two of the layers -- possibly the first and most likely the second to last). I definitely want my walls and ceiling to "keep up with" the floor, or at least not be the weak point in the system.

rod gervais wrote:. . . you shouldn't need any one else to prod you...........

So just go for it.........

Thanks, Rod. I appreciate this. You're on my short list of folk whom I feel compelled to give access to the big red button on my project!

I'm looking at up to 5 layers of 5/8" gypsum wallboard (or equivalent) on each leaf. 3/4" OSB is about the same weight,

Hello Kieth Wow! So you are going "Woodlock" all the way! Say, what do you have to do to the existing roof support(trusses?) to support this kind of weight for the .....HEY,, I guess you are going to have 3 leaf ceiling as well huh...no matter.
Is this roof support framing up to hangin 5 layers on it or will you have to modify it as well?
fitZ