New Basement Studio

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 3:45 am

I think I almost got it. LOL

Thanks for everyone's patience wqhilst I sort this out in my own personal thread that hopefully educates other trying to do this on a budget.

John you mention both sides being bright/reflective.

Ok, I probably wrote this above but i am attempting to reorganize my thoughts so that they make sense.

For my purposes.

Front of control room.

LCR, cabinets up in air angled down towards mix position. Below L/R absorptive, below C, Reflective (perhaps slat resonator).

Side walls, One with window, from floor to about 54", other side Slat resonator same dimensions as window.

Side walls past window, absorptive (Ls/Rs) will be located in soffits angled down as well.

Rear wall, Absorptive/bass trapping. due to shallowness of my room, no hard reflective surfaces back there.

Floor, reflective from widnow to resonator, everywwhere else carpeted/absorptive.

Ceiling, various cloud type angles to absorb sound reflections at the various reflective angles, especially over the window/resonator areas.

If this sounds like I am headed in the right direction lemme know.

Bryan Giles

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:43 am

"LCR, cabinets up in air angled down towards mix position" -

Level with ears is better - less reflection problems off console/desk surfaces. Absorb rear of desk.

"below C, Reflective " -

Don't think so - go here -

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 9&start=45

and "shoot a bank shot" from the left surround to the left side of the center front section, it will come back real close to the mix position. Same with the other side. That's why the whole front needs to be absorptive for 5.1

All, of course, spoken from a well-entrenched position of pure ignorance

... Steve

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:25 am

I have seen both speaker mountings. I see more of the angled down than anything. For me I need to go up cuz that center speaker will be shooting right into the back of my LCD's and I will never hear them, unles I go with a different desk.

But I am trying to keep the cost down.

I can see your point of a dead front surface.

Ultimately my concern is a too dead room.

I am sure some of the reaosn they do what they do is because of CR to LR visibility.

I am hoping the sidewall reflective surface is adequete. Basically I am looking at building what I posted in that pic.
(not the glass in front) that is angled downward.

Thanks for all your input. I am searching like mad for more studio pics and designs so I can search out a common theme of design.

Bryan Giles

to Summarize, basicaly the Reflective lower front surface is the questionable thing?

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:37 am

Yeah, pretty much. I think you're right about why you see so many down-firing speakers - I like John's approach of no front window because of that, because I intend to fight high speaker placement when I get to my CR (probably right after pigs fly; can you hear the whining in my voice?)

I've been working on a design for a desk (3 piece for movability, probably) that will allow 3 19" LCD's low and angled back, sitting behind the two mixers, with 3 nearfields equidistant on a semi-circular bridge - it's been a bitch getting heights/angles/ergonomics right, but I'm getting closer - I saved that link you gave me on arms, just in case the stock pedestals won't go where I want (once I know where that is) -

Once this is done, I'll absorb the rear of the desk and if necessary, take down the nearfields when using the soffited mains (if reflections are noticeable)

The good/bad news is: all this is still many moons away, so I'll have plenty of chances to get the desk design ironed out before I build it... Steve

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:42 am

Ok, Kool so I can be the no budget 5.1 Guinea pig guy. LOL

I was looking at that argosy 90-V series possibly. It's only 2K, but once it is bought it is bought. Not like these dad-blasted CPU's I have to keep buying every year. LOL

Well I am back to the pen and paper. God I wish Virtual PC worked in OS X.3

Gonna do the whole layout and scan it in hopefully

That would look so pretty though, small slat resonator on the lower front wall. Honey Oak Stain.

Heck I tried to do 5.1 last night, just to see how the CPU handles the task, My Computer was crawling. So I guess I am buying a New G5 DP next week.

Post by **John Sayers** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:45 am

Ultimately my concern is a too dead room.

yeah - that's my concern also.

Also - consider that use of each speaker and from my view the rear speakers are only ambience speakers really - who is going to put kick and snare in the rear speakers??

cheers
john

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:55 am

John, That was my main point I guess. The rear surrounds are just filler mainly. So I figured I have seen about 5 rooms online today that have a front lower reflective wall. (Recessed a bit I noticed, not flush with the speaker soffit walls) I assumed that was to keep the ambience of the room pretty decent.

As soon as I finish my next sketch I will scan and upload.

Bryan Giles

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 6:40 am

Here is some old but benefi cial info from Dolby

While many room shapes may work, the ideal room is symmetrical along the line
between the center speaker and the reference listening position. An environment with
no parallel walls (including the floor and ceiling) helps prevent the buildup of lowfrequency
standing waves.
A minimum height of 3 meters (9 feet) is desirable.

As recommended previously, control rooms are often set up in a symmetrical design,
making it tempting to locate the sub in an equally symmetrical location (for instance,
along the center line under the front speaker). However, a symmetrical placement in a
symmetrical room often creates symmetrical standing waves and thus, an uneven
room response. Placing the sub slightly asymmetrically may produce a more
satisfactory result. Using a second sub can also help smooth out uneven room response problems

Good things to note as I embark.

Post by **John Sayers** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:15 am

The original designers of studios first went for a sweet spot where the speakers were set at 60 degrees and aimed at the listener, fine…………… but then the big consoles came in and the engineer found himself sitting in front of channel 28. If he wanted to change something on channel 1 he moved out of the sweet spot to adjust the kick drum on channel 1. So they devised a way to move the sweet spot so it was behind the engineer and he could go to channnel 1 and still be within the sweet spot based on the fact that the tweeter had a 30 degree axis so if you stayed within that axis you had a full spectrum signal. They also added the diffusor rock face either side of the speakers to in some way support this idea.

5:1 determines that each speaker have the same baffle for each speaker and be at the same distance from the listener…... Fine…. so every speaker is directed equally at you. Ok if you work at a DAW and don’t move from your spot but if you have a 14 foot wide console what do yo do??

cheers
john

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:15 am

If you can afford a 14-foot long console in the first place, just ask either of the two assistants on either side of you (whose salaries you can ALSO afford) what they hear

But, actually, it seems as if most "surrounders" are moving toward the small footprint digital desks - Tascam, Ramsa, Mackie, etc, for us poor folk, and Sony, Yamaha DM2000, etc, for the Owsinski/Holman/Scheiner crowd

"Ultimately my concern is a too dead room" - Probably why the trend is toward adding the ambience back with DSP, while still avoiding the early reflection problem. What else can be done?

Which is why my tentative plan of "switchable surfaces" still doesn't sound so bad to me - just need to keep in mind the need for a "gobo closet"... Steve

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:13 am

John Sayers wrote:They also added the diffusor rock face either side of the speakers to in some way support this idea.

I know of one studio built like this in Detroit.

Ok, So For my DAW application I am doing swell then

.Almost done with my sketch. Trying to move it over to a CAD program

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:35 am

Here is my sketch

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:05 am

Here is the Live Room

frederic · Post by **frederic** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:30 am

John Sayers wrote:is directed equally at you. Ok if you work at a DAW and don’t move from your spot but if you have a 14 foot wide console what do yo do??

You purchase a chair with wheels. Don't laugh.

You adjust, slide back into the optimum position, then slide over, adjust, then slide back.

PITA, but thats what a lot of the larger studios do.

Post by **John Sayers** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:13 am

That looks good Bryan

glad to see you've finally mastered a drawing program

cheers
john