John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

I'm afraid it would be boomy, rhythmrhymer...

I honestly think you'd be better off without a gap.

I'm assuming your "wood floor" would be engineered wood, in which case you'd need to follow the manufacturer's instructions for installing it over concrete.

If you have further questions pertaining to your project, you are welcome to start your own project thread -- it seems you've got quite an interesting project ahead and I'm sure many here would take interest in it.

--Keith

Kinetics has data on many types of floor isolation strategies, many of which use their own products of course.

Interesting for anyone seriously considering doing floor isolation. Last time I checked, most data available like the Canadian stuff was for typical wall construction.

The data is of varied quality, does not all go down to very low frequencies, and some is for impact noise transmission, not airborne sound transmission, so be aware of that.

I had considered using a kinetics product at one time before deciding to just build on the slab. If I remember right the slab data on this page was one thing that helped me decide.

Boomy, eh? Well, scrap the pucks then. I actually started to try and salvage the entire b-ball floor - that's a lot of good hardwood - but lo! It was way more trouble than it was worth. How dumb can one guy be?

I will indeed post my own thread ... but I'm afraid I'll have a lot of questions! I built a small project studio once, fairly 'off the cuff', without much planning and minimal research. Funny thing is, it worked out pretty good. It was in a workshop (loud) and right by an airport (loud) so I floated a room within a room, and never heard a peep out of power tools nor planes - and my mixes have received great reviews to boot. Anyways, this is a commercial endeavor, and I'm learning the value of planning! I'll start posting Monday - that's when they start pouring concrete!

Thanks,
rhythmrhymer

It's not only that (ray's boom-boom room) but HOW do you know it's actually gonna work as a spring. I mean, buying some rubber and adding some wood panels ain't a guaranteed success.

Eric_Desart wrote an interesting piece on that in this thread recently:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sc&start=0
(check his comments all the way to page 4)

sharward wrote:John sent me a private message with his stamp of approval.

He also pointed out that he weighed in on a thread in the Studio Design forum, in which he made his point of view known:

John Sayers wrote:
The version 2 is a cosmetic factor, i.e you like the look and feel of a timber floor. Left Bank and Oasis studios are both examples of that. The timber floor is laid on battens on rubber and is only built where the floor is needed, i.e the outer walls don't sit on it and there is no timber floor under the front speaker section or in the rear trap section etc.

T
john

***** pardon my quote editing. First post.
Been pouring through the forum and reading the Gervais book****

'walls on the slab.
speakers on the slab
rear trap section on the slab

wood cosmetic floor laid on battens on rubber.'



Questions
When refering to 'battens' would that be like 1 x 2" or 2 x 4" on it side?

Is there enough room for cable runs under the cosmetic wood floor this way?


thanks in advance

so i read that floating floors arent needed when your building on or overtop of a concrete surface.. what if your building overtop a surface that was concrete and then covered in hardwood.. which now makes the echo waack as fuck.. hence why im building a small iso booth.

any input??

MFPNOX wrote:so i read that floating floors arent needed when your building on or overtop of a concrete surface..

Where'd you read that at?

prolly in this very thread

lol

"So, if you're planning to build your studio on concrete that has firm connection with earth, you most likely don't need to float your floor(s)/room(s). "

read the first page



im just lookin for some input here, construction talk is like french to me.. excuse my ignorance

Great thread. I'm very new at studio design and until I read this thread I was considering buy u-boats to float a floor for a basement studio.

I was wondering if there would be any benefit in building a floor on top of an old carpet and under pad. Or if I would be better off pulling up the carpet and building the floor on the concrete. I understand that this would be far from floating the floor.

Thanks
Kev

This post is quite informative. I've read it three times but the awful truth is that it doesn't respond to the question to which it does refer to.
All the troubles you find are something to be warned of but it doesn't help me find out whether I have to float my floor or not.
Let's not forget: one thing is what the better solution (acoustically speaking) could be and the other is the practical solution, the one that we can actually perform considering all elements involved.

What are the key elements that would definitely draw the line between the acoustic need of a floating floor and the mere waste of time, money and effort that would imply its application when not really necessary?
Does anybody have an answer?

alex.

Alex - I've only floated one studio floor in the past set of studios I've designed.

see here http://johnlsayers.com/Pages/Projects.htm

The first studio in Dubai has a floated floor because it is on the 6th floor of an office block so it was necessary to isolate from the offices below.

All the other projects are on concrete slabs in house basements or industrial sites and have cosmetic timber flooring only in the exposed floor areas.

cheers
john

so basically, if your on the ground (as in everything under you is solid) its a waste of time, but if your on any floor above the one on the ground, then floating to spare others is in order?

sorry its a stupid comment, but i was taught parrot style at school and it works for me

my build may well end up a couple of stories up in a mill, so will need to isolate the live/drum rooms for the other tenants.

thank you for your help

Iain

What are the key elements that would definitely draw the line between the acoustic need of a floating floor and the mere waste of time, money and effort that would imply its application when not really necessary?
Does anybody have an answer?

alex.

Some of the key elements would be:

1) How much sound is actually being transmitted thru the floor, or, how much of a flanking path is it?
Try doing some sound tests to see how well your existing floor performs as is. You may find that you don't need to float.
However, if you learn that your floor performs poorly then there a few other issues to consider. If sound tests show you that your existing floor does not adequately reduce sound levels, then you need to do the following:
a) figure out how much sound isolation you want to achieve
b) figure out how much additional weight your existing floor can hold via a competent structural engineer.

If you learn that your floor can hold little to no extra weight, then you've found your answer, don't float.

c) If you have additional weight capacity available, make sure that your walls and new floor will perform equally.

You don't want to build a floating floor that can't match the performance of superior walls etc, etc. That would be a huge waste of time and money. You have to take into account any new walls and new ceiling when factoring weight capacity for your existing floor.

2) What is your budget?

Floating a floor properly is expensive. You may realize during or after all your research that you just don't have the money.


These are what I would consider to be the biggest factors in deciding whether or not floating a floor is worth it.

Another thing to bear in mind when building on concrete is the possibility of using a split foundation design.

I had the benefit of building my room from scratch in my garden, and after much research decided that this would be a much easier way to go than trying to flot the floor. The foundation was laid with a central rectangular area, and then a second "strip" running all the way round, with a centimetre gap in between. The outer, concrete block wall sits on the outer strip, the inner stud wall on the inner slab.

The room is almost totally soundproof, certainly more than I need it to be. I was also pretty gung-ho about everything else though so I don't know how much of this is down to the foundation.