Drum/vocal booth

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:44 am

Charles, properly isolated that ceiling would work fine, provided there WERE inside frames, as in a full "room-in-a-room" scenario - however, in Dan's case his outside walls will be a single frame, with Resilient Channel on the inside of the studs and two layers of sheet rock over that. His existing ceiling height is already only at 8 feet, so doing a full inner room would impact ceiling height too much to be practical (unless he and all his family are 4'6" or shorter... :=)

Dan, I finally got a chance to run your control room dimensions for modal response and with 8' ceilings it looks really good (for a small room) - In fact, lowering the ceiling to 7'6" doesn't hurt the modes any (assuming you were to "fur out" the ceiling with 3.5" steel studs (instead of using RC), first adding a layer of 5/8" sheet rock to the plywood, then attaching 3.5" steel studs, finally adding two layers of 5/8" sheet rock, your ceiling would be reduced from 96" to about 90.5" - Gonna try to include a screen shot from Excel showing modes. This is with 90" ceiling...

You would keep the steel studs about 1/2" from reaching the (already built out) walls, leaving about 3/16" around ceiling edges, caulking as you go with ACOUSTIC rated caulk ONLY -

Physically isolating the inner ceiling from any HARD contact with walls like that will keep things that vibrate the walls from automatically energizing the ceiling, and vice versa. This improves overall sound isolation.

Be sure to use plenty of CORRECT drywall screws to fasten to the ceiling studs - also, you should think about removing the 1/4 ply on the ceiling and using two layers of at least 1/2" sheet rock before putting on the steel studs and (2 more)sheet rock - the 1/4 ply is likely to vibrate against the added sheet rock. If you run a bead of construction adhesive lengthwise between ceiling joists before adding the sheet rock (in order to combat vibration), that will give you somewhat of an air gap between the 1/4 ply and the sheet rock, which will worsen isolation noticeably.

Best of luck - remember to "measure twice (or 4 times) cut once"... Steve

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 4:04 am

Hey, thanks for the info,
I am talking with the ASC Iso-wall people. They have kits they send you woith all the parts to do resilient channel construction, walls and ceiling.
I like what they have...a little pricey..but seems like good stuff, and they have instructions so I can probably do alot of it myself.
Any one have any experience with this company??
Dan

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 10:29 am

Dan, some of those kits may be OK, others are largely a waste of time and money compared to other methods. Do you have a link to the particular kit you're looking at?

And you're right, this sort of thing is almost always more expensive than DIY options... Steve

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 11:26 am

I'm looking at the Iso-wall system from this company...go thru the recording studio link..very informative site with nice pics and info
http://www.acousticsciences.com.
The kit comes with all the resilient channel, rubber pading, felt,caulking,etc... I will get the insulation, wall board and do most of the labor.
Tell me what you think...Can I do the same sort of thing buy buying the materials, from local places, similar to what they have?...is their stuff that much superior to what I can get?
There is always the convenience factor...they send what you need for the space you have...it may cost more, but you generally get what you pay for...
Look at this site and tell me what you think.
Thanks,
Dan

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:37 am

Dan, I couldn't find anything on their site regarding the Iso-wall stuff - can you give me a better idea of what they charge for what you want, and what it actually includes?

Usually, you get what you pay for OR LESS - the trick is to avoid the "or less" part - also, someone has to find/gather/package these kits, so you will pay their labor (at the inflated rate their company thinks it's worth) - then, there are all the "snake oil" fixes, most of which are unbelievably high priced and replaceable with much cheaper subsitutions.

These guys' facility is about 50 miles from my home, believe it or not - I'm considering a tour when I get some time... Steve

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 8:41 am

Hey Steve,
If you go thru the soundproof button off the main page from the web site http://www.acousticsciences.com/ you wiil have 2 options to look at...wall damp, which is a component of the iso-wall system and the iso-wall system.
For the layout that i sent at the beginning of this thread, using iso-wall for the perimeter walls and 1 side of the interior walls between the separate rooms it will run me ~ $ 4,500.00 shipped to my doorstep. This does not include insulation or wall board. It is for the wall damp pads,stripping, felt stripping, resilient channels, acoustic caulking and that is it...seems pretty high dollar to me.
i am thinking I can maybe do better getting similar products peicemeal.
Check out their site again and see if they are making accurate claims, in your opinion, and if their stuff may be worth what they charge.
TRhanks,
Dan

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 5:00 pm

Finally found it, thanks - after checking the diagrams, it actually looks like an effective wall system.

I agree, however, that it comes at a hefty price - In your case, it looks like you would have about 165 lineal feet of wall that needs double sheet rock, or about 90 sheets of sheet rock not including ceiling - ceilings should take about another 30-32 sheets. You will need about 880 feet of RC-1, at about $3 per 10 foot length (if you can find it locally) You will need about 125 lineal feet of wall insulation 8 feet high (if you open the walls and use rockwool) - That's about 1500 square feet of insulation including ceilings, which could run around $1 per sq foot, maybe less. You'll need about 5000 screws @ around $.03 to $.05, or around $250.

125 sheets 5/8 sheet rock @ $5.75 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $718
tape and mud for above - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -$200
90 pcs of 10' RC-1 @ $3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -$270
1500 sf insulation @ $1/sf - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $1500
5000 fasteners - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $ 250
at least 24 1 qt tubes of acoustic caulk @ $4 - - - - - - - - -$ 100
doors - wild guess - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -$2000
cable, boxes, connectors (another wild guess) - - - - - - -$1000
electrical, lights (REALLY wild guess) - - - - - - - - - - - - - $1000
various seal materials - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $ 500
____________________________________________________
Total - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $7538

Granted, there will be other expenses but that is the major materials part of doing your walls/ceilings WITHOUT the ASC stuff - about $300 of the above would be replaced with the ASC stuff, so it looks like there would be about $4200 difference in cost added to use the ASC kit.

Maybe I need to quit my day job and start a pre-fab wall company... Steve

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 11:31 am

I am beginning to think that it may be easier and cheaper to just do the room in a room, or double wall, deal. Originally I thought I could save money doing the resilient channel thing, but I may be better off doing the double wall treatment, plus I think it would be more effective, according to the SAE site stc page.
Dan

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 2:16 pm

probably. I built a room inside an existing room in my house (control room) and so far I have spent around $1,000.00

I am waiting to get the acoustical sealant needed to seal everything. I have floated the floor, put in all my walls, almost done building the soffits (exterior treatment). Of course I cut a few corners. Nothing major that would mess up the sound isolation. I expect, with the window, doors and rockwool (safb) installed to spend no more than $1600.00

Bryan

Realize my cost is so low because the original room is already built, I am just building inside of that room.

I start the control room next week and I expect the cost to be around the same with 4 slot resonator sections, 703 and floated floor on Neoprene.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:35 pm

OK, Now here is what my wife and I have come up with.
- Interior walls will be done using the Iso-wall system
- the ceiling will be Iso-wall system
- the exterior walls will be double walls with 2 layers wall board on inside.
- exterior means the long walls along live/control rooms etc. not the iso booth walls
-floors: painted cocrete in live room, floated wood in other rooms
- 2 sliding glass doors for entry
- inside doors will be solid core with small windows for site lines.

I will treat the control room like the examples I show in the ealier posts.

Ther iso-room will have iso-wall atound its' exterior, but the wall next to the live room with the door????? Mabe just cover t6he insulation with cloth to give a differnt medium to this wall....703 maybe...???

Please let me know what you guys think!!
Thanks,
Dan