Little help on Closet Vocal Booth

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:49 pm

This would all depend on the rest of the construction around the closet; what is below the closet, above it, etc - the goal in good isolation is to have two concentric envelopes of mass separated by air or insulation, this applies whether walls, floor, ceiling, door, window...

Anywhere this can't be done will be a weak spot. One way to make up for this somewhat is to make a single leaf mass barrier MORE massive, relying on shear mass law for isolation instead of mass-air-mass, which is more efficient in terms of space but not always easy to implement.

In addition, going much beyond what's already been described may exceed your budget -

Is there other living space below your booth area as well? If so, what?

I'm not sure just how much more I can suggest without knowing more about your construction, and I'm not sure you're far enough along to help with that part yet; for example, isolation to the underside - sure more mass in the upper leaf will help, but beyond that you would need to remove the under side covering of your floor joists, and put two layers of decoupled wallboard there after making sure the cavities are insulation-filled. Same with the outer leaves of your walls; a second layer of 5/8 wallboard, properly sealed, will help a few dB.

Not sure how far you want to take this; but in any case, I'd appreciate you editing your profile to include a location for better, more localized recommendations... Steve

Thatoneguy · Post by **Thatoneguy** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:12 pm

Welp, I cleared out the whole closet and have it completly ready for tearing down the walls.

I am still unclear on a few things.

1) When putting up a new wall, what type of wallboard is the best to use? Right now I have probably 1/2" sheetrock. Which as far as I'm told, is not used in homes anymore. So probably hard to find. But it's thick, and it's ROCK. It's not the common drywall that you can nail into pretty easily, it's solid rock. So I'm assuming if I can find this stuff, it'd be the best to use? Unless common drywall is better?

2) I install the RC after the insulation, and the drywall to the RC. Screws THROUGH the drywall, straight into the RC? Do I screw into the studs? Do I use screws at all? Don't want to create a short and end up creating a path for sound to transfer through.

3) I'm only doing two panels of drywall. The second layer of drywall gets screwed/glued/mudded to the first layer, or through the first layer into the RC, or all the way into the studs?

Expect more questions!

Thatoneguy · Post by **Thatoneguy** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:26 pm

Here is my updated web page, it shows the teardown process. I've removed all the wallboards, and have a few questions.

A) My ceiling (on the left side) is on a slight slant, And the ceiling itself goes straight up to the attic, I could (if I wanted to) pop my head right into the attic. I am considering constructing a flat ceiling at the lowest point of the slant. This would make my ceiling overall about a foot down, but I don't think it would be a problem.

B) My floors, I haven't ripped up the carpet yet, but on the left wall (see pics) against the wall, between the floor and the outside wall, is a gap where the studs go, except this gap extends all the way to the bottom floor. There is no sole plate. How would I extend a non-existant sole-plate to make a staggered stud frame?

C) The door, I am about to purchase, I heard from Knightfly that I could create a hollow door and add drywall to each side of the door. Would I have to add drywall to all the ENDS of the door? Each side, and all four ends? I know drywall would be very difficult to attach to a HOLLOW door, and would I glue, mud, or nail the drywall in place? Is this method actually feasable? Will it actually work? can anyone draw me up some basic plans on how to, the door? Thanks

http://www.themoneguys.com/pictures/index.html

Thatoneguy · Post by **Thatoneguy** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:29 am

Knightfly, which wallboard should I purchase? What is the best. . .

gdgross · Post by **gdgross** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:27 am

Don't screw all the way into the studs. That defeats the point of the RC. Either use screws that are short enough so they won't hit the studs in any location or else make sure you don't screw the drwall to the RC on top of a stud.

I don't get the terminology. IME, sheetrock and drywall are the same thing. Comes in 1/2" and 5/8" thicknesses, eithere 4x8 or 4x12 sheets. Nice, heavy stuff.

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:45 pm

What you're describing sounds like cement board, Duroc is one common brand; is the room next to your closet a bathroom, by any chance?

If not, this is kind of wierd; normally, gypsum wallboard is used everywhere except by tub or shower surrounds, where often it's replaced by Duroc, otherwise known as cement board. That is as hard as you describe, it's basically concrete with fiberglass strands running inside, and a fiberglass mesh cover.

Typical names worldwide for gypsum are sheet rock, plasterboard, wallboard, gypsum wallboard, gyp-rock, "rock", etc - but these are NOT as hard as you describe... Steve

Also, it's best to remove all you're going to remove BEFORE you shop for materials; that way, you know exactly what was there and can take a "sample" along with you when shopping.

Thatoneguy · Post by **Thatoneguy** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:33 pm

Oh yea, it's hard all right. And heavy. Heavy! This house was built in 1938. All the walls in the house, are this cement type wall. If you try to nail a nail into the wall, it's real hard, you'll get about a half inch way into the wall then BAM you are all the way through the wall. It cracks when you try putting nails into the walls as well. Not too bad, but typically. So that's what I thought you meant when you said "sheet-rock". I have heard that they don't use this stuff in houses anymore, although the walls are fairly well for blocking sound, the close was *decent* before, the door was useless, but the walls were ok. But anyways, one day we'll tear down all the walls and re-do the walls in the house, but right now we're just doing the closet for myself.

I took a close-up look, and it's definatly cement or some type of rock. It also has hairs or fiberglass strands in it. Some spots are almost an inch thick! I should have just left this stuff up! lol. There was no insulation behind the rock though, so I'm insulating, throwing up RC, and some wallboard. So you are saying any drywall put up the RIGHT way will do as well as any other drywall? [/img]

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:20 pm

Yeah, standard 5/8" drywall, two layers will do it; are you planning on staggered studs, or using resilient mounts for the wallboard? Steve

Thatoneguy · Post by **Thatoneguy** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:00 am

I've decided not doing staggered studs after re-reading the post's. Thanks for the help. I'm using RC.

How much will I need? I'm not sure where I should start, I read a post that said he started 3" off the ground then put RC every two feet going up. Is that about right? Just need some clarification on how much RC to actually use. How much does this stuff run as well?

I need some more clarification on how to get the best out of the floor. I have hard wood floors in the closet and am willing to rip that up to get to the joists. Should I tear up the joists and place them on neoprene pucks? And insulate it? Need some help with that. Or just not even tear up the floor at all.

And about the door, should I layer a hollow door with a layer of OSB. Will this actually be better than a solid door at higher freq? Also, do I do the ENDs of the door. The top bottom and two sides. The sides you can only see when you open the door. Do I add OSB on those sides as well?

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:31 am

I've finally gotten just enough time to check out your pix at the link you posted; there are several problems to fix here, including the apparent holes in the outer wall layer; I'm short on time still, so will have to get back to you for a much longer post;

Please post ANY answer you like, so I don't see my name as the last and think I've answered you; I'll hopefully be able to get into this in a couple of days, sorry... Steve

Meantime; RC - goes within 3" of each side of the horizontal (second) layer, then at LEAST every two feet between, ; so your RC would be horizontal on the walls, one at 3" above floor, another at 45" above floor, and one halfway in between; same for upper half - 3" from edge, one in the middle.

Ditto on ceiling; for your coffered ceiling, I would run the RC near the "dogleg" on either side, and treat each side of the dogleg as a separate plane surface; but make the second layer overlap the first at that seam, for better isolation - keep one panel slightly short on the first course, then go long on the second course, so you have full seam sealing - follow all other drywall recommendations in the REFERENCE section, IIRC they're in the Complete Section thread mainly. Get some blue masking tape and MARK the locations of EVERY RC and EVERY SCREW before you do each surface.

Gaps in the frame - these will need to be sealed. Also, those breaks in the outer wall sheathing - fill those with drywall mud, strike them off flat (12" taping knife will work for this), and put up at least one layer of wallboard BETWEEN the studs and AGAINST those outer boards, fastening along the EDGES ONLY using construction adhesive; press these inserts FIRMLY against the outer wall surface to flatten the adhesive beads (use two small, narrower beads instead of one thick one - the idea here is you do NOT want another air gap, even a thin one.)

Where the hole from below comes in, that will also need to be sealed; 2x lumber, properly caulked, will be about the same as 2 layers of sheet rock but stronger. Then, when you put your inner wallboard layers on the RC, they will constitute the second leaf in your m-a-m barrier to below; I don't think there's a way to kill flanking here, other than your RC for all inner surfaces.

Floor - any commercial, resilient-mounted flooring option can help here; you're not doing drums/bass in there, so you don't need as much iso that way.

Had some time left so tried to cover as much as possible; hope this helps... Steve

Thatoneguy · Post by **Thatoneguy** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:41 am

Thanks!

Still need some clarification on the whole hollow door thing.

The door will come last, so the only thing I *really* need right now is how to make a wall-plate. In detail. I really have no idea how to make an XLR input wall panel. I posted a thread in the wiring and electrical forum on this page, maybe take a peek at it and add a comment?

I added a picture, is this what the RC is suppose to be set up on my wall, correct?

Floor - any commercial, resilient-mounted flooring option can help here; you're not doing drums/bass in there, so you don't need as much iso that way.

So should I tear up the wood flooring, and particle board, to the joists, and add RC to the joists and a layer of OSB on top of that, then some sort of vinyl. Would the RC be able to stand the weight of everything in the room? I think I misunderstood.

But most important, I REALLY need some help with this panel mount idea. I just have no idea what I'm doing for this. I have a friend of mine helping me, but still confused!

Post by **sharward** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:37 am

Thatoneguy wrote:
Floor - any commercial, resilient-mounted flooring option can help here; you're not doing drums/bass in there, so you don't need as much iso that way.
So should I tear up the wood flooring, and particle board, to the joists, and add RC to the joists and a layer of OSB on top of that, then some sort of vinyl. Would the RC be able to stand the weight of everything in the room? I think I misunderstood.

I think that the intent there is not necessarily to use resilient channel below the floor, but to do something to decouple the floor from the framing structure of the house.

Resilient channel is one way to decouple walls from framing. Same with ceilings. I'm not sure about flooring though, because of the weight.

Perhaps Steve can confirm and/or elaborate on this point.

Also, about the image you attached...

Steve wrote:. . . your RC would be horizontal on the walls, one at 3" above floor, another at 45" above floor, and one halfway in between; same for upper half - 3" from edge, one in the middle. . .

The way I read that, you only want 3 channels -- top, middle, and bottom. He said "at LEAST every two feet between," yet you show them 12" apart.

Finally, I'm not sure if you're planning to use two layers of gypsum on your walls. (Two is better than one, obviously.) If that is the case, then you'll want to hang your first layer vertically (i.e., 4 feet across, 8 feet down), seal it up, then hang your second layer horizontally. There are a lot of great drywall threads on this forum, so it's not my intent to rehash all of that. However, I mention this now because if you intend to use only one layer, then there may be a different RC layout recommendation.

Hope that helps!

Thatoneguy · Post by **Thatoneguy** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:47 am

Ahh, I understand about the RC now, my mistake about the two feet apart. Thanks. And yes I do plan on using two layers of wallboard.

Thatoneguy · Post by **Thatoneguy** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:31 am

Also, the ceiling, I've decided I'm dropping the overall ceiling height about a foot, to get rid of the slant on the left side of the ceiling. This way it'll allow more room for insulation and also level off the ceiling.

Thatoneguy · Post by **Thatoneguy** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:30 pm

For the wall box mount, I have decided to go ahead and buy the materials I need. Although I have two questions. . .

What type of TRS connector should I buy. I am looking at neutrik or switchcraft to buy from, but there are so many different model's, I am not sure which one is the one for me.

Also what type of wire am I going to need that's not going to cost me an arm and a leg, but still maintain quality.