John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Well that's annoying. I'll try and figure it out before I upload the next update.

While in SketchUp go file --> save as

Then choose an older SketchUp version like this: Greg

While in SketchUp go file --> save as

Then choose an older SketchUp version like this:

That's what I thought I did last time but it didn't seem to work. Ahh well. I used 3dwarehouse this time. Hopefully this works! I also purged unused and it is now under 500kb. Thanks for that!

Here is the updated file with double top plate and full triangular super chunks in the corners. Let me know what you think.

I'm also debating whether it makes sense to put the window on the door or separately on the frame. I feel like the frame might make sure sense overall, just a bit more work from a prep perspective in framing.

Thanks again!

Matt

What version did you save it as because it is still showing up as a 2017 model. On my main computer I'm only running 2016 so I can't open it still

Greg

I saved it as 2017 instead of 2018 as that was the oldest 3D warehouse would allow for the file. Was hoping that would work since you said they stopped in 2017 for Make. Sorry about that. I’ll see what I can do to make it earlier when I get home. I’ll try and save it through mine as an older version again and go from there.

Matt

I saved it as a 2015 File. Let me know if it works.

Matt

Thanks man! I actually just realized I have both 2016 and 2017 installed on this computer so I could have opened it. Either way, I'm sure there are many forum members that are still rocking the older versions like I was.

Here is the updated file with double top plate and full triangular super chunks in the corners. Let me know what you think.

Looking pretty good!

First off, I would add extra noggins on either side of the door frame like this: Lastly, I don't see a iso clipped ceiling drywall in your model. There's no point in using clip+hat for your walls if you aren't doing it to the ceiling as well.

Greg

Thanks man! I actually just realized I have both 2016 and 2017 installed on this computer so I could have opened it. Either way, I'm sure there are many forum members that are still rocking the older versions like I was.

No worries. I'm glad it worked!

First off, I would add extra noggins on either side of the door frame like this:

Sounds good. Will do!

Lastly, I don't see a iso clipped ceiling drywall in your model. There's no point in using clip+hat for your walls if you aren't doing it to the ceiling as well.

Yeah. I was thinking about it, and from a financial perspective, I don't think it's gonna be doable to do clips on the inside. They aren't cheap, and you need a lot of them. I think I'm gonna set it up without the inside walls first to see how good it is, then add what sound necessary. If I can get away with doubling the outside and singling the inside, great. If I need to double the inside, I will. Still cheaper than the iso clips. Alas! But effective.

Also, we are starting framing tomorrow! I may need to make some modifications to the frame since I am gonna put the window on the wall instead, but I'll keep you posted and send some photos.

Matt

Here is the updated version without Iso clips and with a window. The plan is to build a double pane window with laminated glass in 2 different thicknesses. 1/2in and 3/4in for each pane respectively, built as per Rod Gervais' book suggestions.

Awesome. Google how to frame up a window though. Your current window framing isn't up to code and that's going to be some heavy glass you're putting in!

Good luck and please share pictures.

Greg

Thanks for that! Fixed the window issue before building the frame. A friend of mine who does construction came over to help out. Amazing how much faster it goes when you have someone experienced, haha! Here is a picture of the frame. We hung the double drywall on the back and mudded the joint before sliding it up closer to the wall. Most of the rest should be done next week hopefully.

I learned today though that the glass/window business in town can't get laminate glass thicker than 1/4in though. Ugh. How do we think 2 sheets of 1/4in glass will do. I know for the mass of a double drywall you want closer to 3/8-1/2. How would a double paned 1/4in perform? And would it make more sense to get tempered glass at a thicker amount instead despite to poorer sound isolation (the issue there is price, as tempered is not cheap)?

Thanks!

Matt

We hung the double drywall on the back and mudded the joint before sliding it up closer to the wall.

My biggest concern so far is that you set it partially on top of a rug. How are you going to caulk the booth to the floor with rug there? It needs to be air tight and I'm concerned that the rug is going to screw that up.

I learned today though that the glass/window business in town can't get laminate glass thicker than 1/4in though. Ugh. How do we think 2 sheets of 1/4in glass will do. I know for the mass of a double drywall you want closer to 3/8-1/2. How would a double paned 1/4in perform?

I had a hard time finding some places that could get me thick laminated glass as well. But I found it at a handful of commercial supply places.

If you're doing one leaf of double 5/8" drywall, you're going to get ~32.93dB of isolation. Green Glue Compound would improve that some for sure. If you're placing your glass in a 2x4 frame, I'm just estimating here that you would leave 1/2" for wood stops, then the glass which is 1/4" thick. That means on each side of the 2x4, you're going to eat up 3/4" for stops and glass. So, that means a total of 1 1/2" of stops and glass. That leaves a 2" gap between the sheets of glass. Punching those numbers into the TL calculator, you're getting ~32.93dB around 80 Hz. Of course the isolation gets way better than that at higher frequencies.

So in conclusion, the 1/4" glass would be fine.

Greg

My biggest concern so far is that you set it partially on top of a rug. How are you going to caulk the booth to the floor with rug there? It needs to be air tight and I'm concerned that the rug is going to screw that up.

What rug are you referring to? It’s currently set on super thin tile that is stuck to the concrete. The plan all along was to install that black underlay below the booth to sit on the floor to create a seal. I was going to caulk the inside of the booth at the frame bottom onto the underlay before putting down the booth floor. I could also technically run the underlay a bit further on all sides and caulk it to the booth on the outside. I had never planned on caulking to the floor and this is the first I heard of it. I thought caulking to the underlay would work based on your thumbs up a while ago. Or did I misunderstand?

If you're doing one leaf of double 5/8" drywall, you're going to get ~32.93dB of isolation. Green Glue Compound would improve that some for sure. If you're placing your glass in a 2x4 frame, I'm just estimating here that you would leave 1/2" for wood stops, then the glass which is 1/4" thick. That means on each side of the 2x4, you're going to eat up 3/4" for stops and glass. So, that means a total of 1 1/2" of stops and glass. That leaves a 2" gap between the sheets of glass. Punching those numbers into the TL calculator, you're getting ~32.93dB around 80 Hz. Of course the isolation gets way better than that at higher frequencies.

So in conclusion, the 1/4" glass would be fine.

Awesome! Where is the TL calculator? I was using Rod’s book for the measurements. I didn’t see in my search on the site, but I probably punched the wrong thing into the search bar. Lol. Also, I was going to double drywall the one side to start, then if it isn’t sufficient, I was going to drywall the inside as well, so I could end up with higher that 32.93. However, that’s not bad at 80Hz, especially as it’ll get into the 40s higher up.

Thanks again Greg!

Matt

I found your MSM TL Calculator! This is awesome. Thank you!

Matt

What rug are you referring to?

Sorry, the different colored tile looks like a throw rug to me!

I thought caulking to the underlay would work based on your thumbs up a while ago. Or did I misunderstand?

That should work yep!

I found your MSM TL Calculator! This is awesome. Thank you!

I'm glad you're finding it useful!

Greg

Sorry, the different colored tile looks like a throw rug to me!

Haha. Fair enough!

That should work yep!

Awesome! I was thinking: if I run it just slightly past the frame on all sides and caulk from the frame to the underlay, that seems to be the easiest overall, eh?

Speaking of caulking, I spent a long time trying to sort out exactly how to deal with that and the drywalling. Read up a bunch in Rod’s book and searched here a ton. Just to make sure I’m not missing anything: I install the first layer of drywall and can caulk the whole perimeter of it, yes? Should I be mudding the first layer as well, or jut the second. I remembered reading that only the second was needed with proper caulking, but other posts suggest otherwise. Also, do I need to caulk on the back as well for the drywall (Rod says something about caulking the edges, but I didn’t quite get if that was the back or the perimeter)? Or is doing each layer of drywall on the perimeter (2 layers) and the underlay to frame enough?

I'm glad you're finding it useful!

I certainly am! Though question about the graph. The TL for the drywall says 32.93dB like you mentioned. You had said that was for 80Hz yes? The graph seems to be way lower at the 80Hz point and is a straight line up. Is there something I am missing? Also, fire code drywall is denser. Does it make much more of a difference?

Thanks again!

Matt