How to make a small iso-tracking room actually sound good?

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Soundman2020
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Re: How to make a small iso-tracking room actually sound goo

Post by Soundman2020 »

I live in Puente Alto, Chile...the town just next to yours.
Puente Alto is actually part of Santiago, not a separate town, but it's still pretty far from where I live. Santiago is a city of nearly seven million people. With today's traffic, it would take me well over an hour to get there... Maybe we could meet for coffee at a Starbucks or Juan Valdez in Las Condes or Vitacura? Much more accessible for me....
But your looking at the wrong room! They didn't track drums in there!
Then they faked it in the mix. Plain and simple. And stupid, too: to have the best drum room in the world, and then track in the vocal booth and fake room sound in the mix... Kind of like going to Carnevino in Las Vegas, or Don Julio in Buenos Aires, or La Marca in Chile, and then eating a stale moldy hamburger that you brought with you in your pocket, but spiced up with their salt, pepper and barbecue sauce...
if I did actually live in Chile I would still get coffee with you and buy one for you, if you could stand all my questions.
Not a problem! As long as the questions are based in reality, and don't require divine intervention to answer... :)


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digi001
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Re: How to make a small iso-tracking room actually sound goo

Post by digi001 »

Soundman2020 wrote:Then they faked it in the mix. Plain and simple. And stupid, too: to have the best drum room in the world, and then track in the vocal booth and fake room sound in the mix... Kind of like going to Carnevino in Las Vegas, or Don Julio in Buenos Aires, or La Marca in Chile, and then eating a stale moldy hamburger that you brought with you in your pocket, but spiced up with their salt, pepper and barbecue sauce.
Then you admit it! ......maybe?

But come on now, don't question the producers style choices, or where they decided to record the drums. Not everyone makes records like you.
digi001
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Re: How to make a small iso-tracking room actually sound goo

Post by digi001 »

https://www.toontrack.com/product/claustrophobic-ezx/
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EZXClaustro

I imagine your not a huge fan of this sample pack then?

----------------------------------

I know I'm not gonna get Abbey Road, or Studio B main Live room.....
but even if I can pull off something just a little more interesting than the claustrophobic pack shown above, I will be happy.
I don't want it as dry as that....but close. My room would probably be double the size I would estimate.
Soundman2020
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Re: How to make a small iso-tracking room actually sound goo

Post by Soundman2020 »

Then you admit it! ......maybe?
Nope! Not at all. Because I can guarantee you 100% that if they really did track the drums in that tiny booth, they would NOT sound like they do in the clip. So EITHER they tracked in the main room and just didn't show that in the music video, OR they tracked in the tiny booth, close mic'd, and altered the sound in the mix. But one thing I'm certain of: the sound in the clip is not the pure natural sound of that room.
But come on now, don't question the producers style choices, or where they decided to record the drums.
Well sure! It's their money, they can blow it any way they want! It just makes no sense to me to visit the best vineyard and winery on the planet, then ignore their very best premier vintage Cabernet Sauvignon served in a crystal glass on a silver platter, and run off to the bathroom to drink water from the urinals instead... :)

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Soundman2020
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Re: How to make a small iso-tracking room actually sound goo

Post by Soundman2020 »

I imagine your not a huge fan of this sample pack then?
I'm not saying that using drum samples is a bad thing, espcially if you have no usable drum room to track real drums in, and I'll freely admit to using reverb, compressors, EQ and other stuff in many of my mixes, but that's only because I do NOT have access to Studio B at United, or Abbey Road. If I did, then I would not need to "hide the ugly sound of the small room" by layering effects over it. If I could track everything in a large room with nice acoustics, I would not need to mask the ugliness. When I can record in a large room, I do, and then I avoid using lots of dynamics and EQ. But in small rooms, I have no choice.
but even if I can pull off something just a little more interesting than the claustrophobic pack shown above, I will be happy.
I don't want it as dry as that....but close. My room would probably be double the size I would estimate.
Make your room as big as you possibly can get it, with the ceiling as high as you possibly can get it (even if that means excavating the floor deeper), then test the empty room using REW to see how it really performs acoustically, compare that to the way you want it to be, and install suitable treatment to adjust what can be adjusted, and kill what can't in the low end. Then use effects in the mix to replace what the room cannot provide, since it is too small to provide it. And since you already know that the room cannot provide a true statistical reverberant field below the Schroeder frequency for your room, you can have a "standard" effects setup that gates out the disgusting "boxy" sound from the mics, and fills in the low end with fake-but-less-ugly reverb plugins, then you'll only need to blend in the natural mids and highs.

The answer is that simple.

That's the realistic solution.

But you need to let go of the idea that there is some magical treatment you can construct at midnight on the new moon, using were-wolf blood and vampire saliva, then hang it on the walls of your room with strings made from unicorn tail hair, so that it will pull the missing modal response out of the mystical esoteric space-time hyper-magneto-acoustic entropy mega-tesla-vortex in the base of the Tardis, and somehow inject that into your room, through the meba-spiral snake-oil-anointed black-hole zero-energy HAARP warp-tunnel.... it ain't gonna happen. You can dream and hope until the end of eternity, but you can't get around the laws of physics in this universe.


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wiz1der
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Re: How to make a small iso-tracking room actually sound goo

Post by wiz1der »

Hey Soundman2020, I don't mean to jump in on this conversation, but wondering if you've received my PM regarding my small room correction?

Thanks!

David
digi001
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Re: How to make a small iso-tracking room actually sound goo

Post by digi001 »

Post it on here...or start a new thread. For all to see!
Soundman2020
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Re: How to make a small iso-tracking room actually sound goo

Post by Soundman2020 »

Post it on here...or start a new thread. For all to see!
We already went beyond that stage... into proprietary stuff that I don't normally share in public, since it usually can't be done by casual, uncommitted studio builders, and especially not in improperly treated or badly designed rooms. But David has a situation where he can benefit, since his room has been built well and treated well, and he is willing to go the extra mile(s) to get it as good as it can be, so that's a conversation we are having privately. David already has a thread, and we will probably share some results there at a later date, but for now, it's private.

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digi001
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Re: How to make a small iso-tracking room actually sound goo

Post by digi001 »

Gotcha ok. Make sense.....
I was wondering where the line is drawn.
wiz1der
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Re: How to make a small iso-tracking room actually sound goo

Post by wiz1der »

digi001 wrote:Post it on here...or start a new thread. For all to see!
@digi001 again, I humbly apologize for jumping in on your thread.

@soundman2020 looking forward to hearing from you!


Thanks and respect to all!
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