John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Actually, for best results (less boo-boo's) you should swap items 3 and 4 - if you first "beef up" your door, then you will be able to tell exactly how deep to set the heavier hinges - plus, this whole scenario (after thinking about it a bit) will likely require some modifications to the door frame (the one that comes with the door, not the rough opening) - If you start with an interior (1-3/8") door and frame, you'll have the wider part of the door frame (where the door itself goes, and where the frame itself is thinner) which is designed for the thickness of door that comes with that frame (duh) - so, if you add 1/2" MDF and either 1/8" or 1/4" veneer on both sides, the door will now be almost exactly TWICE as thick as it was -

If you compensate for the extra thickness so that the door sits correctly in the frame, you would need to do one of two things -

1 - you could mark on the frame where it needs to be relieved in order to accept the thicker door, and then use a router set to the depth of the "stop" part of the frame, and rout out the extra material in order to make room for the deeper door, OR -

2 - you could build your own door frame using 1x6 fir (ripped to typically 4-3/4"), and add your own stops from 1x2 (which would need to be ripped to 1-1/4" or so to make room for weather strip - OR...

3 - you could leave the positioning as it is, replacing the hinges and "stepping" the additional MDF, etc, so that it doesn't interfere with the "stops" that are part of the standard door frame - this is by far the easier way to go, because it doesn't require precision stationary power tools (just a steady hand and cutting guide with a decent circular saw when cutting the MDF and veneer) - OR...

4 - You could compromise, and rout the stops enough to bring the left surface (as viewed in the earlier drawing I did) of the door flush with the frame, and then "step" the MDF that's added to the right side of the door - this would require less routing, and still have the door look relatively normal.

Of these choices, # 1 and 2 might give slightly better isolation due to being flush with the rest of the frame, #2 would be probably the most difficult (building the frame from scratch) , #3 would look the "hokiest" but would be the easiest, and #4 would be somewhere in the middle.

In your #8, you mentioned a drop seal - did you have something specific in mind, or were you planning on a complete door seal kit, or?? I asked, because "homeowner" type drop seals typically are NOT sound isolating to any extent - if that's your plan, I would rethink... Steve

Will, Steve, etc.

How did this work? I just looked at these details for the first time and had 2 cents to chip in:

1. Most pre-hung hollow core (interior) doors I've installed don't have the rabbeted jamb you show in your drawing. This may be a regional (Colorado) detail, but most of the time we see rabbeted jambs like that on pre-hung exterior doors, which are usually 1 3/4" anyway. If it is a flat jamb w/ applied stop, just move the stop to compensate for the extra skin on the stop side of the door. An exterior rabbeted jamb is better for an acoustic seal though.

2. You can also use Bondo (2-part auto body filler) and a wooden plug to fill in a lock bore. You can also order doors undrilled from any good door supplier.

3. Lots of the newer (cheaper) hollow core pre-hungs use MDF for the perimeter frame of the door itself, which won't hold screws worth a damn. Make sure your door has a solid wood perimeter frame under the face veneer to hold all the weight of that extra skin. Check the hinge mortises to see if they are let into real wood, not MDF/fiberboard.

Hope this helps.

Frank

Frank, all good points - my home's interior doors all have rabbeted frames with 1-3/8 hollow core doors; however, for the most part the builder was an idiot - some of the doors also have exterior sized hinges, some of the lock bores are so big you can see thru the door around the hardware, and the guy built all the window frames out of particle board Point is, I've no idea if these doors came this way as prehung, or if they were (like the rest of the place) scrounged at garage sales.

I'm disgusted at the crap that's for sale disguised as building materials these days - no wonder people are turning to steel framing, steel doors, plastic window frames, etc - the alternative is grade B particle board or worse - yuchh.... Steve

A link to a newer door jamb sketch -

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3293

knightfly,

How could this be done on a 2x6 base, staggered stud construction?

I'm using 2x6 for the base and 2x4 for the studs with the studs staggered 12" oc.

Thanks!

Are you just installing a single door, or two doors on one frame? Steve

i'm doing two doors on one frame

bigerock, you might let steve (knightfly) know this is also being discussed here

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4090

otherwise you will have to re-explain everything again

maybe better to keep all posts together, too ...

sorry dan, i hadn't rememberd that i had posted anything on this topic until i received a reply the other day.

either way, i'm already done with hanging the doors.

thanks.

bigerock, sorry for the delay; looks like you went something similar to what I finally got time to draw - I tried to post a couple days ago and the site wasn't cooperating. Maybe this will help anyone ELSE trying to use staggered studs and double doors... Steve

Nice illustration, Steve -- looks like a great plan.

Since some of us don't have the tools needed to "trim down a 2x4" lengthwise, I was wondering... Instead of "trimming down" 2x4s, could one just use 2x3s, which measure 1 1/2" x 2 1/2" naturally? I would think in that case you could avoid the "single layer of drywall near hinge" thing.

I also wonder (...don't shoot...) what codes call for -- is trimming a stud or using a 2x3s kosher in this context?

--Keith

"Trimming", or ripping, can be done with a circular saw if you're careful; naturally a table or radial saw is better. Those hinge-side studs need to be as close to full width as possible for strength to support the hinges and weight of the door, so a 2x3 wouldn't be as strong. Also, note the position of the flat part of the finish frame where hinges go - this just doesn't lend itself to double drywall, period. You want solid wood behind the finish frame for hinge screws, not drywall.

IIRC, code wouldn't be violated by this because there are other, full-size studs in close proximity. No guarantee there though, I'm not on the machine that has full codes installed plus I'm in the middle of graveyard 12's ATM, so

Just a side note on the DIY door cleating and sealing method that Steve mentioned eariler in the thread for anyone using square self adhesive weather seal.

I tried this last night with my first door but ran into one small problem I thought I would share.

When you press the cleat and weather seal up against the "hinged" side of the door (or any other side) you compress the rubber by about 10-20% to get a nice tight seal before you nail/screw the cleat down.

Unfortunatlly, on the hinged side of the door when you open the door the rubber expands and then when you go to close it again the inward swinging corner of the door hits the rubber seal on the edge and either pulls it of the cleat of compresses into a funny shape that makes it nearly impossible to close the door.

I have not found a fix for this yet, I tried moving the cleat but to get a good seal the same problem keeps happening. I think I will have to go back to the rubber/DIY shop and get some 1/2" x 1/2" "triangle" shaped rubber, if such a thing exists, to fit in this corner where the cleat meets the door frame.

I will let you know how it goes after the weekend - still alot cheaper than a seal kit and the results on the top/bottom and other side look good so far except I keep tripping over the bottom cleat!!

JG

Very interesting. It would be great if you could post a picture of this problem.

Will do
JohnG