Steve,
thank you for your reply!
About the blocks I tend to use are made from pumice and cement.
The ordinary blocks have two cavities,right?
These have six cavities and are 11kg each.
I don't know if this is important.
The seller told me that they have a TL of 68db.I don't know if this TL covers the entire frequency range.
What do you think about the 45.000 budget?
Thank you.
Concrete perimeter wall
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knightfly
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On the blocks, what are the exact physical dimensions, L x W x H ? And what is the size of the holes, and the web that runs between each hole?
As to budget, I would need to know more about costs of materials in your area - for example, the cost per sheet for 15mm gypsum wallboard (and what size sheet that is) the cost of 37mm x 90mm wood boards, OSB, MDF, and plywood in 19mm thickness, cost per block for the blocks you mentioned, and if you intend to hire any/all of this done the typical rate for construction labor -
If you were to hire a studio built in the US, you would be lucky to get 30 square meters of space for $45,000 - if you do all the work yourself, you could get 2 to 3 times that much for the same money. In Greece, you may have access to cheaper labor and/or materials - once you find out the costs I asked for, including typical labor for construction and whether you plan to do most of it yourself or hire it done, we can get a better idea... Steve
As to budget, I would need to know more about costs of materials in your area - for example, the cost per sheet for 15mm gypsum wallboard (and what size sheet that is) the cost of 37mm x 90mm wood boards, OSB, MDF, and plywood in 19mm thickness, cost per block for the blocks you mentioned, and if you intend to hire any/all of this done the typical rate for construction labor -
If you were to hire a studio built in the US, you would be lucky to get 30 square meters of space for $45,000 - if you do all the work yourself, you could get 2 to 3 times that much for the same money. In Greece, you may have access to cheaper labor and/or materials - once you find out the costs I asked for, including typical labor for construction and whether you plan to do most of it yourself or hire it done, we can get a better idea... Steve
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Yiannis
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knightfly
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Never saw anything like them in this part of the world - is that a hole in the middle, presumably for steel re-bar?
Looks like if you "buttered" the entire block face when stacking, you'd get the equivalent of solid concrete from an acoustic point of view - I don't see why they wouldn't work for your heavy outer leaf... Steve
Looks like if you "buttered" the entire block face when stacking, you'd get the equivalent of solid concrete from an acoustic point of view - I don't see why they wouldn't work for your heavy outer leaf... Steve
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Yiannis
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Steve, I will call on Monday to get some info about the hole in the middle.
Are the spaces on these blocks helpfull for sound isolation?
I have count that I will need about 1800 blocks for the outer wall.Thats about 20 tons!!!
If you take a look at the plan the bottom is north.The planes are on that direction.Should I consider to build the CR there(north) and the studios at the south?Or its the same no matter I do?
would you please take a look at this?
http://www.ytong.gr/Network/Network_Frameset.htm
I know its Greek to you!
These are YTONG blocks,a lot lighter but I dont know about soudproof.
Thank you very much.
Are the spaces on these blocks helpfull for sound isolation?
I have count that I will need about 1800 blocks for the outer wall.Thats about 20 tons!!!
If you take a look at the plan the bottom is north.The planes are on that direction.Should I consider to build the CR there(north) and the studios at the south?Or its the same no matter I do?
would you please take a look at this?
http://www.ytong.gr/Network/Network_Frameset.htm
I know its Greek to you!
These are YTONG blocks,a lot lighter but I dont know about soudproof.
Thank you very much.
Yiannis
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knightfly
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Yiannis, you're right about that site being "all Greek" - even the pictures confused me... 
If those blocks are lighter, they are NOT what you want - the closer you get to solid concrete, the better. If the first blocks you posted pix of are what they look like, they would be the best of what you've shown so far.
In order to get good isolation from your walls, you will need this heavy solid outer shell, then a space full of insulation, then an inner, somewhat lighter wall (like 2-3 layers of gypsum wallboard all on one side of the frame) - once this outer double shell is done, you can worry about acoustics (sound proofing and acoustics are almost totally un-related) - the same applies to floors and ceilings - if your existing roof is flat and made of masonry, and is strong enough to support the rest of the studio construction, then all that would need be added is the inner floated floors. This would be mandatory in the tracking rooms, and (sort of) optional in the CR -
As to ceilings/roof, the same laws of physics apply - you need two masses separated by air/insulation in order to isolate effectively. Besides that, you also need the roof to keep the weather out, and to still be ventilated enough NOT to cause mold or rot. This generally means that you get things sound proofed (by doing a double leaf as I explained) and THEN cover it all with a ventilated but weather-proof roof.
These "rules" are especially true of your situation - the low frequency rumble of air planes will literally shake the ground, which will transfer through your building and into your rooms - this is why having fully isolated "room inside a room" construction, including floated floors, is the only thing that can stop this kind of noise... Steve
If those blocks are lighter, they are NOT what you want - the closer you get to solid concrete, the better. If the first blocks you posted pix of are what they look like, they would be the best of what you've shown so far.
In order to get good isolation from your walls, you will need this heavy solid outer shell, then a space full of insulation, then an inner, somewhat lighter wall (like 2-3 layers of gypsum wallboard all on one side of the frame) - once this outer double shell is done, you can worry about acoustics (sound proofing and acoustics are almost totally un-related) - the same applies to floors and ceilings - if your existing roof is flat and made of masonry, and is strong enough to support the rest of the studio construction, then all that would need be added is the inner floated floors. This would be mandatory in the tracking rooms, and (sort of) optional in the CR -
As to ceilings/roof, the same laws of physics apply - you need two masses separated by air/insulation in order to isolate effectively. Besides that, you also need the roof to keep the weather out, and to still be ventilated enough NOT to cause mold or rot. This generally means that you get things sound proofed (by doing a double leaf as I explained) and THEN cover it all with a ventilated but weather-proof roof.
These "rules" are especially true of your situation - the low frequency rumble of air planes will literally shake the ground, which will transfer through your building and into your rooms - this is why having fully isolated "room inside a room" construction, including floated floors, is the only thing that can stop this kind of noise... Steve
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Yiannis
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Steve,
I will make a plan for my roof and post it here but this is what I don't understand so far:oops:
Would you please explain it?
"Besides that, you also need the roof to keep the weather out, and to still be ventilated enough NOT to cause mold or rot. This generally means that you get things sound proofed (by doing a double leaf as I explained) and THEN cover it all with a ventilated but weather-proof roof. "
thank you!
I will make a plan for my roof and post it here but this is what I don't understand so far:oops:
Would you please explain it?
"Besides that, you also need the roof to keep the weather out, and to still be ventilated enough NOT to cause mold or rot. This generally means that you get things sound proofed (by doing a double leaf as I explained) and THEN cover it all with a ventilated but weather-proof roof. "
thank you!
Yiannis
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Yiannis
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Steve, this is what I am planning to do for the outer part of the roof.
Above the metal frame will be a layer from wood battens,
then a layer from cement (whatever thickness is desirable)
Afterwards a layer from sheetbutimen will be installed so no water passes thru (I don't know if this word does exist ,but that what it is been called here "sheetbutimen").
Last the ceramic tiles will take place.
The outer mass shell is going to be ONLY the perimeter of the building.I mean that inside I will be able to see the metal beams that support the outer roof.
So if the roof has to be ventilated how am I going to do it please?
NOT to build the perimeter wall to the roof height,right?
That way isn't risky for the moisture or dust to get into the construction?
Thank you.
Above the metal frame will be a layer from wood battens,
then a layer from cement (whatever thickness is desirable)
Afterwards a layer from sheetbutimen will be installed so no water passes thru (I don't know if this word does exist ,but that what it is been called here "sheetbutimen").
Last the ceramic tiles will take place.
The outer mass shell is going to be ONLY the perimeter of the building.I mean that inside I will be able to see the metal beams that support the outer roof.
So if the roof has to be ventilated how am I going to do it please?
NOT to build the perimeter wall to the roof height,right?
That way isn't risky for the moisture or dust to get into the construction?
Thank you.
Yiannis
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knightfly
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Yiannis, is it possible you could post any pictures of this type of roof, or at least an idea of how strong those steel rafters are, and how far apart?
It's looking like you may need to suspend a double-leaf ceiling INSIDE your normal roof and seal that to the perimeter walls.
The only way I know of that you could get away with NOT ventilating your roof (and thereby making it act as your outer leaf) would be if you could somehow hermetically seal the outer roof tiles to the outer concrete walls, and then somehow circulate inside air through between them - but if you do that, then the space between outer and inner leaf is not sealed, and won't be nearly as effective to block sound.
If you can find a way to post a more complete description of what you want to do for a roof, I'll try to determine whether it can work for a studio situation - otherwise, you may need to look at other ways of accomplishing your isolation needs... Steve
It's looking like you may need to suspend a double-leaf ceiling INSIDE your normal roof and seal that to the perimeter walls.
The only way I know of that you could get away with NOT ventilating your roof (and thereby making it act as your outer leaf) would be if you could somehow hermetically seal the outer roof tiles to the outer concrete walls, and then somehow circulate inside air through between them - but if you do that, then the space between outer and inner leaf is not sealed, and won't be nearly as effective to block sound.
If you can find a way to post a more complete description of what you want to do for a roof, I'll try to determine whether it can work for a studio situation - otherwise, you may need to look at other ways of accomplishing your isolation needs... Steve
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Yiannis
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Steve,I don't have any pictures of the roof because it isn't constructed yet.I could only make a draw for now.
I trying to figure out-with your precious help-how to build the outer shell as good as possible, so I will not have any problems later.
All I know is that the steel rafters gonna be strong enought and the space between them could be anything from 50-70cm.
My thought was to put a 10cm rockwool with 3 layers of drywall under the roof (on the steel rafters) 1st leaf I guess.
beneath that I could live 50cm-1m space for the AC ducts and then the second roof could constructed on the floating floor.2nd leaf.
Is it a good idea Steve or just a waste of time and MONEY?
thank you!
I trying to figure out-with your precious help-how to build the outer shell as good as possible, so I will not have any problems later.
All I know is that the steel rafters gonna be strong enought and the space between them could be anything from 50-70cm.
My thought was to put a 10cm rockwool with 3 layers of drywall under the roof (on the steel rafters) 1st leaf I guess.
beneath that I could live 50cm-1m space for the AC ducts and then the second roof could constructed on the floating floor.2nd leaf.
Is it a good idea Steve or just a waste of time and MONEY?
thank you!
Yiannis
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knightfly
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Yiannis, when I asked about pictures of this type of roof, I meant maybe you had seen OTHER buildings built this way, and might be able to post a picture or two of how they are constructed - if not, drawings work much better than words most times - if you can show what you have in mind with the roof construction, including where each leaf would be and how the wall's outer leaf would be continued in the roof, and how the wall's inner leaf would be continued in the roof, it would help me understand what you have in mind.
If that isn't possible, I might be able to find time for a couple of drawings in a couple of days, but right now things are pretty hectic so it may be longer... Steve
If that isn't possible, I might be able to find time for a couple of drawings in a couple of days, but right now things are pretty hectic so it may be longer... Steve
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rod gervais
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- Contact:
Yiannis,
I have been doing some research on construction in the Mediterranean - and Steve's concerns regarding attic ventilation are very real.
Due to the huimidity levels and temperature ranges in the Med - it is very important that the bottom of the roof be ventilated if you are going to construct what you've indicated.
If you don't want to do this - then your construction will have to change somewhat.
If you were to insulate between the roof deck and the bitumen layer with 3 or 4 inches of foam insulation (made specifically for this purpose - they have a board applied to the insulation for laying the bitumen over) then condensation won't be a probelm - but shy of that - you have to ventilate this space.
Rod
I have been doing some research on construction in the Mediterranean - and Steve's concerns regarding attic ventilation are very real.
Due to the huimidity levels and temperature ranges in the Med - it is very important that the bottom of the roof be ventilated if you are going to construct what you've indicated.
If you don't want to do this - then your construction will have to change somewhat.
If you were to insulate between the roof deck and the bitumen layer with 3 or 4 inches of foam insulation (made specifically for this purpose - they have a board applied to the insulation for laying the bitumen over) then condensation won't be a probelm - but shy of that - you have to ventilate this space.
Rod
Ignore the man behind the curtain........