John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Mike Portnoy has answered the "When is Dream Theater going to play in ______?" question.

--Keith

sharward wrote:

Ro wrote:Keith, you checked the new DT yet?

But of course! Click my "www" icon.
--Keith

haha, checked yer profile on myspace and send a request to add to friends... so, if ye c mail from "libramentum", jup thaz me alright

Well, I'm slowly (emphasis on "slow") getting through my HVAC work, finishing up the redo on the electrical as per the very helpful corrections from Rod and company.

I replaced the "dead end" two gang box with a "straight through" box of the same size. I then put the leftover 2' extension of PVC on the end of it and attached that to the LB connector. I then managed to create a properly sized hole in the stucco to accommodate a 3/4" electrical PVC conduit, a little over 6 feet long, left over from another thing I did a couple of years ago (not studio related):



Let me tell you, that hole was not easy to make! Just my luck: I ran into some resistance, which I thought was foil-backed sheathing, but then came to realize was a truss connector plate!



Not only did I have to drill through that darned thing, but I then had to go through the 2x4 to which it was attached, and then... Yep, another connector plate!

I finally made it all the way through (I'm sure I really mangled the plate on the inside face), fed the pipe through, and then glued it to the back of the LB, leaving me with this:



I'm going to wait on connecting everything in the junction box until I'm done in the attic. I believe I'll have some slack up there, and if so I want to push it through in order to have some usable lengths of wire left over. At that point I'll be sure to use a liberal amount of GE Silicone II caulk to seal the holes (old and new).

Now I have to muster up the energy and courage to go up into the attic again on this rather warm day to finish the job. I'm not so thrilled about having more exposed conduit and two junction boxes (one inside and one outside) to deal with, but I will say that having the conduit forced into the attic by six feet and moved over from the end by another two feet will make things much more comfortable up there (or, rather, much less uncomfortable).

Like, now...

--Keith

Shortly after I posted yesterday afternoon, I loaded up all my tools and ventured into the attic. I knew I was in for a tough time when the attic ladder was hot. I barely popped my head into the attic before retreating. It was just too damned hot. It would be tolerable if my trip were to last five, even ten minutes, but I knew I'd have be up there much longer. Heck, it takes me that long just to make the trek to the area I need to work in!

I'll give it another try two weekends from now. (I'm out of town this coming weekend.)

Note to self: On sunny days, you can't afford to procrastinate -- get the attic work done before noon.

--Keith

Hello again,

We had a nice weekend here with some cooler weather, so I got an earlier start and headed up to do the much needed "PVC-to-Romex junction box" installation.



And, yes, I put a cover on it when I was done. Oh, and in case you're wondering, the red electrical tape on two of the wires is just a marking to distinguish them from the other wires that are the same colors.

I also managed to carry forward the refrigerant and electrical lines about 30 to 40 feet north towards the garage, securing it to the trusses along the way. It was, as usual, slow going, methodical, meticulous and careful work. Unfortunately I had no flat surfaces to kneel upon -- I would literally have to rest my knees on the bottom chord of the truss in front of me and rest my ankles on the bottom chord of the truss behind me, and then after finishing securing the lines in that section, I'd move forward two feet to repeat the operation!

After I came down from the attic on Saturday, Mrs. Sharward was shocked at how my clothing was completely drenched in perspiration after two hours! (I should have gotten a picture of that! ) And let me tell you, after getting cleaned up, I was wiped out for the rest of the day.

But the good news is that, while I'm not completely done with all the attic work, the worst of it is (I think) over now, as the rest is over the garage where there is no blown-in cellulose insulation to get in the way, where the peak of the roof is higher (and, thus, not as hot), and much easier to navigate to and from.

After making the connections in the exterior junction box, I'll be ready to feed the lines into the studio and install the interior unit, plus carry the supply wiring all the way to the service panel. In a couple of weeks I expect to have a fully functioning air conditioner in the studio room!! That will be awfully nice to have while working on the rest of the build, especially with the hot weather fast approaching.

--Keith

More good progress to report.

I made a quick and painless trip into the attic to drill a couple of holes and feed the refrigerant and electrical lines down into the studio, and I mounted four layers of plywood on the rear wall studs with Green Glue sandwiched between each of the layers. The plywood is staggered so that each subsequent layer is slightly smaller than the previous one, so that the sheathing and drywall (once installed) will slightly overlap the seams, resulting in stability and a good seal. I then mounted the indoor unit of the mini-split air conditioner to the plywood.

I've chosen to do it this way because of the fact that I have to install the mini-split before doing insulation and drywall installation. It's kind of backwards, because mini-split systems tend to be installed in retrofit scenarios because they're so well suited for that.

I'm very close to a golden spike type of moment on the mini-split install, which makes me very happy. I hope to have everything fully wired up and ready for an HVAC pro to charge by next week.

Pictures will follow soon, once I'm done with wiring the indoor unit.

Unfortunately, the batteries on the cordless drill and flashlight combo I bought last July are totally shot, so I have to replace them... ...I'm actually heading to Home Depot right now to do just that.

--Keith

Interesting couple of exchanges I had at work today...

• DUDE #1: So, last weekend, when I ran into you at Home Depot, in the electrical department, what were you doing there?
  
  KEITH: Oh, I'm building a soundproofed room so I can play my drums...
  
  D1: Oh yeah? Cool! That Soundboard stuff works great!
  
  K: (scoffing in elitist tone) Uh, no it doesn't.
  
  D1: What?! Sure it does!
  
  K: Doesn't. It sucks.
  
  D1: Sucks?
  
  K: Edge to edge suckage!

I then wanted to refer him to the sticky threads and tell him to buy Rod's book, but then I came to my senses that we weren't on the forum!

Then an hour later...

• DUDE #2: You're building a soundproof room, eh?
  
  KEITH: Yeah, slowly but surely... In my garage...
  
  D1: Cool! I just built my own house. Went through permitting process and everything.
  
  K: Cool! Yeah, I am too -- fun, eh?
  
  D2: Dude, you don't need a permit if you're building in your garage!
  
  K: Uh, yeah I do.
  
  D2: No you don't! I know for a fact!
  
  K: I know for a fact that I do!
  
  D2: Don't! It's a garage!...
  
  K: ...Being converted to habitable space though...
  
  (Back and forth a while... but I know I'm right!)
  
  D2: Are you using soundproofing foam?!
  
  K: Uh, there's no such thing...
  
  D2: Yeah there is! I soundproofed my office with it! It works great!
  
  K: Uh, no it doesn't... Foam doesn't stop sound... It just keeps the room from being "echoey"...
  
  D2: Well, I sure paid a fortune for mine and it turned out great! It's between the walls...
  
  K: Well, to be honest, I don't think your foam is doing much for you at all... It might keep the drywall from resonating a little...

What a blessing this site is... There's sooooooooo much misinformation out there........

--Keith

Man-O-Man...
Doesn't it feel GREAT to be able to stand "toe-to-toe" with people when you have KNOWLEDGE of Studio Construction??!! You don't have to worry about "CRAP" being thrown your way that's just myth or hearsay!

i had one the other day when i was at work. was just playing around with a few design ideas on a piece of scrap when the guy next to me ask what im doing. i reply by saying its a recording studio design, to which he replied. ''you know what you should do init is put egg boxes on the walls to sound proof it'' . however my reply was oh yearrrrrrrrrrrrrr. because i diddnt have the energy to put him right.

...and yet, I remember being clueless a few years ago, doing Google searches for "soundproofing foam" and at one time thinking that a futon mattress covering a bedroom window would prevent the sound of my drum set from getting outside...

I guess I misspoke on the "soundboard is crap" remark. What I should have said to Dude #1 was, "yeah, soundboard works somewhat, but substituting a second layer of drywall is cheaper and more effective." I'll clarify that next time I see him.

--Keith

Too funny. I've had similar exchanges; I imagine many of us have.

"Oh, you're building a studio?"

"Yep, once I get settled in to the new place I'll start the build."

"Oh, cool, I've built a studio before. The hard part is finding enough egg crates....."

"Ummmm...... never mind."

yeah that was a funny moment in "hustle & flow" when they put up all those egg crates. of course the rest of the movie wasn't too believable either ...

and where was it i heard the story about the band whose members were so sick of eating eggs while building their "studio?"

More progress to show off.

With the exception of the final hook-up to the electrical service panel (something I'm considering saving for a pro), the condensation drain line, and final charging of the system, plus sealing up some holes, I'm done with the mini-split air conditioner (and heat pump) installation!

Behold!



You can clearly see the multiple layers of plywood I used as the "foundation" for mounting the unit. Again, my intent is to have a durable surface on which to mount it while also providing an opportunity to sturdily transition from sheathing and drywall when the time comes to install those materials.

I had a bit of a challenge deciding how I would handle mounting the service disconnect switch. I decided to use a two gang steel box mounted to the surface of the plywood stack.



The switch is rated for 20 amps and has two poles on it -- one for hot and one for neutral, just like what is called for on the wiring schematic in the installation manual.

I had to use a two gang box because it had to be large enough to accommodate all of the connections as per NEC: 2.25 cubic inches per "connection" -- each wire (not counting ground wires) entering the box counts as one, all the ground wires together counts as one, the switch counts as one, and each clamp counts as one. The largest single gang box I could find at Home Depot had insufficient volume. I could have used a shallower "square box," but the cover would have to have been "less pretty." I intend to eventually do some kind of trim around the edges of the box so it will look nice.

Another challenge I had was clamping the NM-B ("Romex") wires to the box. The clamps that would have hung off the back of the box would have made it difficult to mount it to a flat surface. I decided to turn the clamps around so that the bulkier sides are inside the box, and I drilled a larger hole through the first layer of the plywood stack to accommodate the threaded part.



I assume inverting the clamps is not prohibited by code (I'll find out soon enough I'm sure! ).

After it passes inspection, I intend to use acoustic sealant or silicone caulk to fill in the hole. I'd rather not make a mess, just in case I have to redo something. I've learned my lesson on making things too final before inspections!

--Keith

This past weekend was nice climate-wise. I got a little bit of work done (emphasis on "little" ).

I finally ran the condensation line from the indor unit of the mini-split between the leaves around the south and east walls, out to the garage vent. It's not too exciting or photo-worthy though. I'm holding off on using PVC cement on the connections until the inspector comes, as I want to be sure he's OK with the hook-up.

I'm just about decided on having a pro do the service panel hookups... Few things on this project have threatened me with actual death if I make a mistake, so I figure it's better to be a hundred or two bucks poorer and alive than dead. There's a licensed electrician who works at Home Despot that I've gotten to know a bit, so I'll probably ask him to do it. I was hoping I'd run into him this weekend when I went there for some stuff, but no luck... )

I've been rhinking a lot about the recepticle/switch boxes... After lots of time in the electrical aisle at HD, I think what I'll do is run a pair of horizontal 2x4s above and below where I want my box and attach three layers of drywall pieces to the back of them. Counting the studs on either side, that makes a 5 sided box. Some acoustic sealant will make it air-tight. Then recessed boxes won't leak sound. Technically that's three leaves in those small areas, but that's OK.

As for the boxes themselves, after toying around with lots of possibilities, I'll use old work boxes after the drywall is up. I'll need to replace the screws on the "wings," but that's not a problem. One advantage with this approach is that I can stop at 2 layers and do some tests to see if a third is even necessary, and I won't have protruding boxes all over the place like the one next to the air conditioner.

I'll probably work on those boxes this weekend, heat permitting. We're up for some 100°F+ temperatures this week...

--Keith

Hey, look at that -- my thread now has over 200,000 views (most of which are spiders and robots, I realize... ) and I have passed the 4,000 mark in number of posts.

But besides that......

I have great news! I had a certified electrician hook up my studio circuits to the service panel today!


"Long Island Bob," a certified electrician I ran into at Home Depot

I paid him $150 to hook up the five circuits. I already had the breaker switches and the cables were ready to insert into the panel, so it was a pretty quick and easy job... Yet I wasn't entirely comfortable with the prospect of doing that work on my own. Now I don't have to worry about it anymore.

Although... He did have to double-up on some of the ground bar connections, which he claims is OK as long as they're the same guage wire... But he said if the inspector rejects it, he'll fix it by adding another ground bar for me. Perhaps I'll drop by my friendly neighborhood city building permit counter to see what they have to say about that little shortcut...

Here's a shot of last weekend's work -- the indoor unit of the mini split with the insulated condensation line in place...



See the ivory hose thingy?

And here are those electrical box enclosures I made on Independence Day...



...which was a very hot day!



I'm ready for an HVAC contractor to charge the system up now. Actually, in studying the documentation for the system just now, I just realized that it's already charged with refrigerant, but it needs an extra 4 ounces due to the length of the refrigerant lines (50 feet).

I put together a simple bid sheet for contractors to complete and fax back to me if they're interested in the job.

We're in the middle of a nasty heat wave out here -- our first triple digit temperatures this season, so I'm sure the HVAC companies are running themselves ragged and are not likely to be available right away... ...which could be a problem because I must have an inspection in the next 30 days in order to keep my permit active!

I'm also pretty excited about the next steps, which are starting on the fresh air ventilation system. Last night, instead of counting sheep to get to sleep, I envisioned the way I'll build the silencers. I'm actually making a pretty drastic change in my initial design -- whereas I had originally intended to build soffits inside the room and alongside the room in the laundry room and garage, I'm instead going to conceal the silencers between the inner leaf joists and inside the attic. They'll be quite a bit smaller than I had originally envisioned, but they'll still be pretty large -- and heavy! I don't have any drawings to share, nor am I able to describe it in too fine detail at this point... But I will take lots of pictures along the way, that's for sure.

--Keith