5.1 Postproduction in Garage

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:48 pm

Here is a small quote froma website

Sheathing grade OSB subfloors are well suited for most floors and are intended to have an additional layer of flooring material such as an OSB underlayment panel, wood strip flooring or concrete topping.

Who hoo, I found some desnity info. OSB is about as dense as plywood. board. like 2% Denser.

Particle board is denser than plywood. So I think that answers my question.

Bryan Giles

dtess · Post by **dtess** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:31 pm

Bryan,

What are your live/drum room dimensions? I looked for a picture on your site but only saw the control room. Looks like you are well on your way

As far as the floor goes, the plan is to put a wood floor over the OSB. I wonder which is more cost effective the T&G OSB or 2 layers of Particle Board? I haven't priced these materials. Thanks for the info.
I'm trying to soak all this is in and make something of it.

Thanks,
Dave

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:50 pm

Guys, if I hit the hay right now I'll get about 4 hours sleep before a 12-hour shift, so I'll have to check this tomorrow night and get back to you, sorry... Steve

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:17 am

Hey Dave, John Hasn't put up that floor plan yet. The room is the exact same size as the control room, just different angling of the walls tiss all.

It is on the design forum site, and here it is.

<img src ="http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/files/liveroom.jpg" /img>

Bryan Giles

You will see pics of my live room floor underconstruction.

dtess · Post by **dtess** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:41 am

Bryan,

Looks great, Putting together ideas for acoustic treatment in my room.
Anybody priced OSB?

Detroit eh, how's the Windsor ballet?

Thanks,
Dave

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:21 am

OSB Here in MI at Lowes tends to be more expensive than Particleboard

Bryan

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:03 pm

Same out West - OSB is rapidly becoming the "NEW PLYWOOD" of the building trades, supposedly meets specs for strengths, etc, because the fibers are "oriented", but I'm still not convinced it's as good as ply for some things. Here is one of several interesting articles from U. Amherst -

http://www.umass.edu/bmatwt/publication ... ywood.html

Cruise the rest of their site, quite a bit of useful info there... Steve

dtess · Post by **dtess** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 6:46 am

Steve,

Do you think using the concrete floor as the floor in the drum room and using seperate floating floors in the other rooms is a good idea? Trying to gain as much height as possible in the drum room. Any thoughts about the wall details etc.?

Thanks,
Dave

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:12 am

Dave, just backed up and read a couple posts I must have missed - I wouldn't recommend particle board as the FIRST layer for a floor over concrete - unless you find some of the higher priced, "exterior" rated stuff I've only heard about. Almost all particle board tends NOT to like moisture, so I shy away from it anywhere there may be moisture to deal with. OSB is supposed to be better for that. Here is a link to a really valuable paper on basements/moisture control -

http://www.buildingscience.com/resource ... ystems.pdf

And just in case you've not found it, the thread that's closest (so far) to a soundproofing "FAQ" -

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=598

Of the three pics you posted on possible wall construction, Bryan steered you right - #3 would give the best results.

Normally, NOT floating any one floor is fine as long as you're not close to a train station or track, or an industrial plant with multi-ton punch presses vibrating the entire earth for several miles - however, in your case if you're wanting QUALITY Foley recording in that room I would stick to floating it. You wouldn't need 2x4's on edge, you could cut that back to even 2x2's if you use narrower strips of neoprene under them with closer spacing (see this thread for some info on spacing, loads...)

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=839

Also, you can usually get good isolation in a floated room's ceiling by using 3 different thickness layers of wallboard on RC (depending on what's above that)

"The ceiling is two sheets of 5/8 hung off of a channel with insulation above." - "Right now the garage is a empty shell. " So, which is which? Is the first quote a plan, or already there? And, what's ABOVE the joists, is it a vented attic?

All these details are what make the difference between complete satisfaction and disappointment in the finished project - I don't mean to repeat myself, but would rather do that than let something slide that will ruin your project for you.

If you have access to a digital camera, it would help a lot if you could take several views of your space as it is now, and post them (please resize down to about 750 x 575, it keeps us from having to scroll sideways to read all text) - views should include clear shots of inner roof/rafter/truss construction, shots of any "protuberances" that may have to be either handled or moved, North East South West walls (reference only, you can choose what you want to call North)

If you only plan on occasional Foley work, and can find really quiet times to do it, then NOT floating the drum room floor would be possible. However, that's where the loudest noises will come from so you need to decide whether you can live with probably 12 dB less isolation as far as sound getting OUT to family/neighbors or not. The Low freq is the usual biggest problem here, since it's non-directional and travels really well.

Hope that helped, post some pix and clarification on current status if you can... Steve

dtess · Post by **dtess** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:00 pm

Steve,

I apologize for the scattered thoughts and again I say the advice and help from everyone is incredible. Steve you have great patience, you should work in tv

The ceiling currently is joist with a vented attic above. The plan is to hang 2 sheets of 5/8 from RC but you are saying 3. What is your choice for the 3 layers.

Like this?
"For 3-layer ceilings, RC on 16" centers is plenty close even if all 3 layers are sheet rock. Use Wood type screws fastening the RC, and use at least 1-1/2" long to fasten the RC to the joists."

I've been reading lots of post, so thanks for the links pointing me in the right direction

I'll get on the pics.

Thanks,
Dave

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:35 pm

Thanks for poitning that out steve. Partcile board hates water. And I hate to say it, but so does OSB. At least what I have used. Just like that article said, the product will improve, but is it there yet?

I left a sheet of OSB on my front porch during the construction for 2 days during heavy rain, the junk was soft as particle board.

I'd do the plywood first then something in between and then the layer of particle board.

I could get away with PB on both my layers as my studio is on the 1st floor of a house we are converting.

Bryan Giles

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 3:25 am

Yeah, it's never easy figuring out what's the lesser evil when choosing materials - particle board kinda sucks for almost everything, except it's so darn heavy so it's tempting to use it for sound control.

Dave, "you have great patience, you should work in tv " - I used to, only in the tech end (design and maintenance) lost patience

moved north to Oregon, now considering doing post if/when I finally get to build my OWN facility over...

On your ceiling, hanging two or three layers UNDER the joists will still only give you a single leaf barrier, since the attic is vented. That can SORTA work if you have heavy cellulose blown in on top of the underside layers, but it's much better if you can manage a double leaf system all the way around your space. We're talking a difference of probably 20 dB or more.

Are your ceiling joists actually part of engineered trusses, or what? Can you be more specific about that part of the construction? How deep are the joists, top to bottom? Are there angled "chords" fastened to the joists and to the rafters?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Steve

dtess · Post by **dtess** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 5:07 am

Steve,

Northern Oregon is beautiful spent some time there on a bike on highway 1 all the way to San Fran. I was braver then.

The Joist are 7-1/4" deep on 46" centers. Planning to install more joist to them on 16" centers. Pic should tell the rest.

Looks like double leaf at least in the drum room. What is the best way to support the second leaf?

The window on the South wall becomes a door and the door on the east wall becomes a window in the bathroom.

Thanks,
Dave

dtess · Post by **dtess** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 5:13 am

2 more pics

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 12:25 pm

Man, what an interesting roof design - looks like stick-built trusses on 4 foot centers, purlins across those and rafters on 2 foot centers, every other one being supported by the purlins. Wierd -

I'm gonna have to think about this one a bit - can you do a couple more pix on the roof framing from different angles so I can be sure? Also, maybe one shot from up among the rafters looking down the length of the ridge - Thanks... Steve