Homemade Snake Terminations

len-morgan · Post by **len-morgan** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:16 am

I didn't see this one answered. I'm at the point of running the snake cable to connect my various rooms in my studio. I would rather not connect from connector to connector (for example drum room mic inputs to control room) but rather have some sort of multi-pin connector at each room I/O box so that all of my cables would be made the same way.

What is the collective wisdom here about the type of connector to use? Just to clarify, what I'd like is to have a panel of XLRs (8) that were individualy wired to a short multi-pin connector so I could remove the panel easily. The 8 cables would terminate in a multipin connector. Another long snake cable would go between this room and the control room which would terminate with the same connector on each end. This would allow me to remove the panel, disconnect the snake -> panel connectors and move it, change it, admire it's craftsmanship, etc. I would also be able to make up all of the panels "remotely".

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

len

Post by **sharward** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:08 am

Do you mean, kind of like these female-female CAT-5 connectors?

I realize we're talking apples and oranges here... I'm just referring to the concept.

len-morgan · Post by **len-morgan** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:18 am

No, that would only do two connections at most. I'm talking about something like a DB-25 or Elco multipin or something like that, preferably with at least 24 pins so I can use one connector per 8 channels. I've seen a lot of "professional" patch panels that use the big Elco connectors on the back but I can't seem to find a "consumer" source of them.

len

Post by **sharward** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:27 am

Ahhhhh, got it.

You'd not be the only one wanting to admire that craftsmanship, by the way...

Post by **Aaronw** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:03 am

Len,

Do you need a source for the EDAC connectors and pins, or are you looking for another type of connector? DB25's are also another option as you mentioned. If you need a source, I have one here locally and I'll give you his info...

Are you also trying to have connectors that disconnect on each side of the panels?

len-morgan · Post by **len-morgan** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:28 am

Aaronw wrote:Do you need a source for the EDAC connectors and pins, or are you looking for another type of connector? DB25's are also another option as you mentioned

A source for the EDAC connectors/pins would be great. As to DB25s, are they really an option? They're nice because I can get 8 lines (3 wires each) on one connector, they are cheap, and readily available. I'm a little concerned about signal integrity but since these are all low level, it probably shouldn't be a problem. The bigest problem I see with DB25s is the diameter of the cable itself. The 8 pair cable is almost 3/4" dia. and the 16 pair is even bigger. I don't think I can get a shell that would fit.

So the problem is then that I'd have to open up the cable to expose the individual wires, solder them down and try to squeeze all of them into the .433" hole in the hood. And that only takes care of the 8 pair cable.

Aaronw wrote:Are you also trying to have connectors that disconnect on each side of the panels?

It would be nice if I had some sort of hard panel to hold one side of the connector but it's not really necessary. As long as I could hold down each side of the connection with a cable clamp or something like that, it would work.

len

Post by **Aaronw** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:37 am

It would be nice if I had some sort of hard panel to hold one side of the connector but it's not really necessary. As long as I could hold down each side of the connection with a cable clamp or something like that, it would work.

Huh?

A source for the EDAC connectors/pins would be great.

You can go to: http://www.greendotaudio.com

His name is Mark. He's a strange cat, but I have bought several connectors through him (Neutrik, DB25's, EDAC, etc.).

I would rather not connect from connector to connector (for example drum room mic inputs to control room) but rather have some sort of multi-pin connector at each room I/O box so that all of my cables would be made the same way.

I'm not really sure what your trying to say here. Can you clarify exactly what you're trying to do?

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:29 am

Personally I'd get Rapco to custom build the panels and have them pin the snakes, if you chose to go EDAC.....

EDAC is more reliable in the long run than the spin type connecter (like whirlwind) This is from a Live touring perspective....

len-morgan · Post by **len-morgan** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:07 am

A simplified explanation of what I want to do:

I want to build a few 1U rack panels that have various mixes of XLR, MIDI, and TRS connectors that are all wired to a "pigtail" of a foot or so that terminates in some kind of multipin connector. I also want to build "extension" cords of 8 or 16 pair snake cable that have mating connectors to the rack panels. This way, I can build and run the snake cables (which I won't be able to get to after the drywall is up) and just leave the terminated ends sticking through the drywall.

When construction is finished, I can just plug the end of the cable into the rack panel and screw it in. If I ever want to change the mix of connectors, all I would have to do is remove the panel, disconnect the snake cable, make the repairs/changes and put it back. It would also mean that I can wire up the panels and the cable in a location that is more condusive to good workmanship.

I hope that explains it better.

len

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:29 am

Yeah that totallly clarifies it. You plan to have x number of pairs in the snake and be able to reroute as needed using QDC, but the snake is in place.

Will each rooms snake home run to your Control room or will any of the rooms have shared pairs....

IE. Ch 1-10 = mic channels and are shared in each room?? or will it all be isolated runs back to the CR

Post by **Aaronw** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:37 am

How many rooms do you have, how many pairs of different cable(s) for each room, and what kind of setup are you having for the control room...(analog console, digital console, DAW, etc...)??

len-morgan · Post by **len-morgan** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:20 am

You can see the layout of my studio here:

Len's Studio Build

There are three recording rooms (vocal booth, drum booth, and main room) and a control room. All snakes will terminate in the control room. Sharing connections between rooms might save some wiring, I'd much rather have as many options open as possible and just use patch cords to get mics, headphones, etc to/from where they need to go.

The vocal booth will have 4 XLRs and 4 TSRs in a 1U panel.

The drum booth will have 8 XLRs and 4 TSRs in a 1U panel.

The main room will have one panel with 12 XLR/TSR combo jacks (wired in parallel) and another with 6 XLRs and 6 TSRs. The control room end of all of these will probably be terminated in TSR plugs that would go into the back of something like Behringer PX1000 or PX3000 patch panels. The mixing board, a few pieces of outboard equipment, and the I/O from my Delta 1010s (2) would also be connected to patch panels so I'd be able to connect pretty much anything to anything.

I know it's a lot of patch panels and cords but I think this will give me the maximum flexibility. I'm always open to suggestions though.

len

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:29 am

This is not a big deal...I was thinking something more elaborate...

I would homerun all the connections and maybe share the headphone connections (TRS)

A TT or 1/4" Patchbay setup would be the best for your interconnections at the Mix Desk. Behringer are decent, I am sure in time you might prefer a better grade bay.....

I would also add to the drumroom 4 midi connections, (8 additional snake pairs - share the grounds per connection).

Never know, you might wanna do V-Drums or something one day......

Hope that made sense.....

len-morgan · Post by **len-morgan** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:08 am

giles117 wrote:I would also add to the drumroom 4 midi connections, (8 additional snake pairs - share the grounds per connection).

Never know, you might wanna do V-Drums or something one day......

Three questions:

1) Wouldn't a V-Drum set only need 1 MIDI line? Perhaps 2 (1 in 1 out) I haven't seen an actual set so I don't know if they have more than one output.

2) Isn't there a distance limit (and fairly short at that) for MIDI? The drum room is "right across the hall" but the actual cable would probably have to travel a good 25' or so (up inside the drum room wall, across the hall, then back down to the floor, along the front of the control room wall then over to the patch panel).

3) How many wires do I actually need for a MIDI? I know that the connectors are 5 pin but I don't remember what's needed besides in, out, and ground.

len

Post by **Aaronw** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:52 am

2) Isn't there a distance limit (and fairly short at that) for MIDI? The drum room is "right across the hall" but the actual cable would probably have to travel a good 25' or so (up inside the drum room wall, across the hall, then back down to the floor, along the front of the control room wall then over to the patch panel).

Yes, MIDI does have a maximum, and the shorter, the better. I believe the maximum recommended is 50'. But you'll have some latency w/ longer cables as well as signal strength.

3) How many wires do I actually need for a MIDI? I know that the connectors are 5 pin but I don't remember what's needed besides in, out, and ground.

I haven't really had a need to work w/ MIDI much, but maybe someone else here can help answer this one.

Are you running any conduits from CR to your tracking rooms? Is it a possibility?

I would run "home runs" to each room from your control room. This gives you the cleanest and shortest path without splices, etc. In audio, the more connections, the more chances for problems.

Bring all your home runs from mic lines, line level lines, etc up to patch bay's. And speaking of patch bays, depending on your budget, they make bays that are already wired to Elco's/Edac's and would meet your requirements or wants very well...but they're expensive. Just a heads up.

Or option B...wire your own bays (TT would be the preferred w/ it's foot print (twice as many connections than 1/4")) (96 vs. 48 ). Then wire them to a back plate (have rear rack rails on your rack or something) which will have your multi-pin connectors attached to the plate. Then it's all plug and play.

Now let me ask this question...Are you designing this studio as a permanent install, or will you be using some of this equipment for remote locations? If you have no need for moving it, you can hardwire directly to the bay.

Let me throw another monkey wrench in here. Have you seen the ADC punch block panels? This is another great option, and probably one of the best and most flexible. This way you can change wires quickly as needed.

See here: http://www.adc.com/Library/Literature/1180270_2.pdf

This may give you some ideas for wiring.