Wiring console inserts to balanced patchbay

[CLH]

I have a 24 channel Soundtracs Project 8 console, and I just got 4 Neutrik NPP-TT bantam patchbays (balanced with the three push connectors (labelled T, R and S) per jack.)) I'm in the process of wiring the patchbays to the console, and need a little help with wiring up the console inserts.

I understand that I need to connect the insert send to the top of the patchbay and the return to the bottom of the patchbay, but how to do this is where I'm stuck. I'm currently using Mogami 3080 cable to wire this up. The cable is 2 conductor with a drain wire, and a shield for the whole cable.

I know I need a TRS connection into the console. I'm thinking I connect the hot (red) to tip, the cold (clear) to ring, and the drain and shield to sleeve.

On the patchbay side, for the top jack (send), do I connect the red to the T, the drain and shield to the S, and leave the R with nothing connected to it? Then on the bottom for the return, do I connect the clear to R, the drain and shield to S, and leave the T with nothing connected to it? I know this is how a y insert cable is wired.

If I do need to connect the drain and shield to both the top and bottom jacks, how do I go about doing that? There is only one set of those, so they can physically go to either the top or bottom, but not both. Can I connect the drain and shield to the S in the top jack and then run a jumper wire from that S to the S in the bottom jack?

Hopefully this makes some kind of sense. I tried searching this board and many others, along with google, and could not find a diagram or answer to this problem.

Thanks in advance for any help I get on this.

Chris

[Aaronw]

Greetings and welcome to the site Chris.

First question I have.

On the console side, are the Insert Send/Return on the same jack (TRS)? I would assume so. A lot of console are wired this way.

Assuming it is, usually the Tip is the Send and the Ring is the Return. Consequently, this is also an unbalanced connection.

I know I need a TRS connection into the console. I'm thinking I connect the hot (red) to tip, the cold (clear) to ring, and the drain and shield to sleeve.

If the connection on the console is both Send/Return, yes.

Now in reference to the patchbay. Can you modify your normally scheme? (Normalled, Half-normalled, de-normalled?)

If I remember correctly, for inserts, you want half normalled. I'll get back to you w/ a definate answer next week. It's been awhile since I've done a patchbay (been building this studio for 2 yrs. and no tech work ).

But here's some good info here if you haven't read it yet... http://www.patchbays.com/norm_ground.htm

[CLH]

Greetings and welcome to the site Chris.

Thanks. I've been lurking here ever since the forum on this site first opened, but had no real reason to post until now. I'm in the process of aquiring and setting up my gear first, and then I'll start building my studio in the third bay of my 3 car garage, and an extra bedroom in my house. Once I start the design for that, I'm sure I'll be posting eveyday with tons of questions! I'm very much into the DIY thing, so I plan on doing all the construction of the studio myself, down to the furniture. Here is a thread about the homemade rack I just completed: DIY rack

First question I have.

On the console side, are the Insert Send/Return on the same jack (TRS)? I would assume so. A lot of console are wired this way.

Sorry for not being more specific about this. Yes, they are on the same TRS jack.

Assuming it is, usually the Tip is the Send and the Ring is the Return. Consequently, this is also an unbalanced connection.

Actually, for this console, tip is return and ring is send. No big deal, as long as I always remember to wire this way.

I know I need a TRS connection into the console. I'm thinking I connect the hot (red) to tip, the cold (clear) to ring, and the drain and shield to sleeve.

If the connection on the console is both Send/Return, yes.

Which it is.

Now in reference to the patchbay. Can you modify your normally scheme? (Normalled, Half-normalled, de-normalled?)

Yes I can. The normalling is changed via jumpers on the patchbay.

If I remember correctly, for inserts, you want half normalled. I'll get back to you w/ a definate answer next week. It's been awhile since I've done a patchbay (been building this studio for 2 yrs. and no tech work ).

I would figure half normal too, so that the signal is continuous through the console when no cable is plugged into the patchbay, yet will only be broken if I patch into the lower patch point. I'm doing the opposite of you, gonna do the tech work first, and then build the studio.

But here's some good info here if you haven't read it yet... http://www.patchbays.com/norm_ground.htm

I have read that before. Great info, but unfortunetly doesn't specifically deal with wiring up an insert to the patchbay. The manual for my console says to "use individually screened cable for both the send and return, or twin cable with individual screening on each core (e.g. figure of 8 cable)." Makes total sence to me, I was just hoping that I could use the cable I already bought.

Chris

[Aaronw]

Sorry I haven't had a chance to get back w/ you on this. It's been a crazy week around here, and have sooooooo much to do in the next 2 weeks before I fly out of town.

Yes it would be half normal. When you plug into the top row (send) it still loops the signal without breaking it. It only breaks the connection when you plug into the "return" (bottom row).

[Sword9]

Don't forget when going from balanced to unbalanced, or the other way, always practice the ancient art of Tyelodugrund. Solder the low side of the balanced connection to the ground so that it's not freely roaming and acting as a radio antenna or something worse.