I have the behringer ECM8000 and have downloaded the ETF software. I'm not really sure where to start.
I have attached the layout of my control room. The dimensions are correct with 8ft. ceilings.
There is a normal size window to the outside in the back of the control room also and the window to the right side of the room viewing the drums.
Pics of the control room :
http://maestro.supremeserver20.com/imag ... C01584.JPG
http://maestro.supremeserver20.com/imag ... C01649.JPG
How do I test my room ?
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maestro7879
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:12 am
- Location: Schwenksville , Pa.
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dprimary
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sat May 22, 2004 5:05 pm
The way I was told to do it and the way I still do it., is start by listening to the room. How is the balance? it the bass controlled? are there flutter echos? Anything resonating in the room? How well does mixes translate in and out of the room? After you develop a good picture of what you thing the room and speakers are doing. Then measure. Does the measurement agree with the picture you developed before hand? If it does, you can pretty sure you are correct in your evaluation. If it does not, you need to figure out why. Did the measurement point out a problem you didn't hear? Did you do the measurement wrong? I would practice in a living room or spare bedroom first just to get some practice with the measurement system. Test how the measurement changes by location and so on. After you feel comfortable measuring and reading the measurements then do the real room. It is important to understand, in most cases you are measuring the room and speaker interaction at one location. More can be measured but it takes more equipment and a skilled operator.
Dan
Dan
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maestro7879
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:12 am
- Location: Schwenksville , Pa.
My first test.
Here is the first test that I ran per the help file.
I have been doing alot of reading but i'm still not sure what i'm looking at.
I have been doing alot of reading but i'm still not sure what i'm looking at.
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maestro7879
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:12 am
- Location: Schwenksville , Pa.
I have my compenents connected like this
ecm8000 ---> Tac Scorpion ---> Delta 1010lt
Delta 1010lt out to ---> Tac Scorpion ( control room section ) ---> Monitors
I have read the guide but i'm still not sure what i need to do. Is there a diagram of this somewhere ?
Man , I can connect every piece of hardware in my studio but I can't connect a simple testing program !!! I feel like an idiot.
Dan
ecm8000 ---> Tac Scorpion ---> Delta 1010lt
Delta 1010lt out to ---> Tac Scorpion ( control room section ) ---> Monitors
I have read the guide but i'm still not sure what i need to do. Is there a diagram of this somewhere ?
Man , I can connect every piece of hardware in my studio but I can't connect a simple testing program !!! I feel like an idiot.
Dan
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z60611
- Posts: 251
- Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:08 am
- Location: Ontario, Canada
maestro
For a tale of someone else who took a while to get ETF5 setup correctly, with lots of help from his friends, please see
Bobs Rockwool Corner Trap ETF5 tests, first try, at Studiotips including the totally useless measurements. Some of the links from that thread may no longer work, due to space limitations on www.bobgolds.com.
(and then afterwards the more successful Bobs Rockwool Corner Trap ETF5 tests, second try)
http://www.etfacoustic.com/NewUser.html
For a tale of someone else who took a while to get ETF5 setup correctly, with lots of help from his friends, please see
Bobs Rockwool Corner Trap ETF5 tests, first try, at Studiotips including the totally useless measurements. Some of the links from that thread may no longer work, due to space limitations on www.bobgolds.com.
(and then afterwards the more successful Bobs Rockwool Corner Trap ETF5 tests, second try)
http://www.etfacoustic.com/NewUser.html
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maestro7879
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:12 am
- Location: Schwenksville , Pa.
I think i have it now.
Pics at - http://maestro.supremeserver20.com/etf/
If I have it right these are the sentences that helped.
You need to connect the output and input of the L channel of your soundcards line I/O together. And connect the mic/mic-pre to the R channel input, and make sure it's NOT playing through the speakers. The connect the R output of the soundcard to the speaker. Only use ONE speaker, otherwise the path difference between the two will comb filter the results
Pics at - http://maestro.supremeserver20.com/etf/
If I have it right these are the sentences that helped.
You need to connect the output and input of the L channel of your soundcards line I/O together. And connect the mic/mic-pre to the R channel input, and make sure it's NOT playing through the speakers. The connect the R output of the soundcard to the speaker. Only use ONE speaker, otherwise the path difference between the two will comb filter the results
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knightfly
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6976
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
Those look more typical - keep in mind, though, that unless you've found a CAL file for the ECM-8000, there will be some non-linearity due to frequency response of the mic not being flat; however, not a big concern because any untreated room will show at least that much variation in response for the LF tests, and that wild a comb filtering (full freq response) until you have absorption at least where first reflection points are located.
If you open the help file and follow the first time user tutorial stuff (don't recall the exact name, sorry but my laptop isn't at hand ATM) it will guide you through the steps for setup (part of which you seem to have already found and done)
Basically, you first set up BOTH channels you're using so they are connected input to output (these MUST be LINE level inputs, not mic level) - once those tests have been done, ETF knows what your soundcard is like and you know how flat to expect your responses to be.
Then you set up as you mentioned, keeping the left channel looped so ETF can "subtract" your system variations and get closer to "real" measurements.
I'm just getting into this software myself, so I'm bound to miss a TON of things to check - I've found that it's very difficult (so far, at least) to interpret what I'm seeing, as to its cause. I bought the entire package from ETF; all extra SW modules and their "calibrated" omni mic and preamp, so I could keep things "mobile" using my laptop, since I intend to add this to my consulting "bag of tricks" once I get half a clue what I'm seeing with it - I've found that moving the mic a small amount can sometimes make a HUGE difference in LF response, but was surprised (in my crappy sounding living room) to see almost NO DIFFERENCE when I raised and lowered the mic, may have to redo those tests after I get more familiar.
I've also noticed that, when ETF is set up to "near real-time" mode, just walking around the room causes VERY noticeable differences in LF response; but when I stand still and let ETF do several "shots" in a row, they change negligibly. So, the conclusion is - if I can get 3 more people to stand in the corners, I'll save big bux on rockwool
BTW, once you get close to minimising the peak-to-trough response with mic at listening position for each speaker, you CAN use both speakers - feed both with a "Y" connector, and set each one's level (with the other one OFF) identical with steady state tones at the mix position, then turn both speakers on - this will give you an idea of any other interferences that may not show up with just one speaker on at a time. (This part is still "gut feel", as I mentioned I'm just getting into this - I've done it, but saw little diff in results (LF tests only) between two or one speaker)
Calibration - if you don't "calibrate" etf (button on one of the test screens) then ETF references the highest SPL encountered to be "100 dB" - this is OK for seeing the total variation in response as a comparison for moving different acoustic materials around, but will NOT tell you actual levels -it may also not produce the same scale for comparison, not sure yet) - to CALIBRATE to nearly accurate levels, you need a SLM - look in your help files under "calibrate", the method of calibrating to REAL SPL's should show up.
General advisory - nearly every program you install under Windows has a help file; virtually all have a "search" function. The first time you open this "search" function, it gives you three choices - one is "maximize search capability" - unless your hard drive is ready to explode, I ALWAYS choose this option - that way, if you're looking for one specific example of a specific word, if it's ANYWHERE in that help file it will sooner or later show up in your searches...
Beyond that, good luck; as I said, I'm still "idiot qualified" on this myself... Steve
If you open the help file and follow the first time user tutorial stuff (don't recall the exact name, sorry but my laptop isn't at hand ATM) it will guide you through the steps for setup (part of which you seem to have already found and done)
Basically, you first set up BOTH channels you're using so they are connected input to output (these MUST be LINE level inputs, not mic level) - once those tests have been done, ETF knows what your soundcard is like and you know how flat to expect your responses to be.
Then you set up as you mentioned, keeping the left channel looped so ETF can "subtract" your system variations and get closer to "real" measurements.
I'm just getting into this software myself, so I'm bound to miss a TON of things to check - I've found that it's very difficult (so far, at least) to interpret what I'm seeing, as to its cause. I bought the entire package from ETF; all extra SW modules and their "calibrated" omni mic and preamp, so I could keep things "mobile" using my laptop, since I intend to add this to my consulting "bag of tricks" once I get half a clue what I'm seeing with it - I've found that moving the mic a small amount can sometimes make a HUGE difference in LF response, but was surprised (in my crappy sounding living room) to see almost NO DIFFERENCE when I raised and lowered the mic, may have to redo those tests after I get more familiar.
I've also noticed that, when ETF is set up to "near real-time" mode, just walking around the room causes VERY noticeable differences in LF response; but when I stand still and let ETF do several "shots" in a row, they change negligibly. So, the conclusion is - if I can get 3 more people to stand in the corners, I'll save big bux on rockwool
BTW, once you get close to minimising the peak-to-trough response with mic at listening position for each speaker, you CAN use both speakers - feed both with a "Y" connector, and set each one's level (with the other one OFF) identical with steady state tones at the mix position, then turn both speakers on - this will give you an idea of any other interferences that may not show up with just one speaker on at a time. (This part is still "gut feel", as I mentioned I'm just getting into this - I've done it, but saw little diff in results (LF tests only) between two or one speaker)
Calibration - if you don't "calibrate" etf (button on one of the test screens) then ETF references the highest SPL encountered to be "100 dB" - this is OK for seeing the total variation in response as a comparison for moving different acoustic materials around, but will NOT tell you actual levels -it may also not produce the same scale for comparison, not sure yet) - to CALIBRATE to nearly accurate levels, you need a SLM - look in your help files under "calibrate", the method of calibrating to REAL SPL's should show up.
General advisory - nearly every program you install under Windows has a help file; virtually all have a "search" function. The first time you open this "search" function, it gives you three choices - one is "maximize search capability" - unless your hard drive is ready to explode, I ALWAYS choose this option - that way, if you're looking for one specific example of a specific word, if it's ANYWHERE in that help file it will sooner or later show up in your searches...
Beyond that, good luck; as I said, I'm still "idiot qualified" on this myself... Steve
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laptoppop
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:29 am
- Location: Southern California
Just a note - the ECM8000 is one of the cool buys out there. It is sold as a "measurement microphone" - and is a very small diaphram condensor omni microphone. It is supposed to be extremely flat, so compared to the variations in most of our studios, its a great start.
The plot says (yah, for all that's worth - I know)that it is flat within about 1/2 of a dB up to about 2kHz, then has about a 2 dB gentle slow rising/falling bump between 2 and 17, peaking at about 8.
Its not that hard to make a tiny omni microphone very reasonably flat - I think this microphone is a great help in measuring rooms. I've seen them as cheap as $35, but usually they are $50. They run off phantom power from 15-48V.
-lee-
The plot says (yah, for all that's worth - I know)that it is flat within about 1/2 of a dB up to about 2kHz, then has about a 2 dB gentle slow rising/falling bump between 2 and 17, peaking at about 8.
Its not that hard to make a tiny omni microphone very reasonably flat - I think this microphone is a great help in measuring rooms. I've seen them as cheap as $35, but usually they are $50. They run off phantom power from 15-48V.
-lee-