Wall design using a propietary polymer layer . .

edenorchestra · Post by **edenorchestra** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:49 am

I guess after reading all the issues concerning 3 leaves I began to think ohhhh nooo . . but I have a differant approach here with a very secret layer that I can only talk about to a limited degree . . but I will say that after looking at Quiet solutions and having a keyboard player that is a polymer chemist, we came up with a pretty cool idea . . any thoughts here . .

BTW you guys seriously rock out there with all your work, focus and dedication to this science . . I am having a blast reading your posts.

AVare · Post by **AVare** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:10 am

You are still triple leafing. You would get about a 10 point better STC by putting all the gypsum etc in the middle leaf on the inside leaf.

Have a look at the bottom of this link at the various constructions and sound isolation. Rw is similar to STC.

http://www.domesticsoundproofing.co.uk/tloss.htm

Andre

edenorchestra · Post by **edenorchestra** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:20 am

Thanks Andre for the reply . . so you are telling me to forget all together the inner most studs, and just put two layers of my "sandwiched panels" on the middle wall?

I was going to float the floor and have that inner stud wall on the floor. But it sounds like you are suggesting to eliminate that all together?

Cheers,

Mark

Sen · Post by **Sen** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:28 am

Hi Mark,
Is your "exterior fibreboard wall" sealed or can air (and sound) pass through it? If they can (not sealed), you can leave your plans as they are.If they can't (sealed), then Andre is right in what he's told you.

In the second case, I would add some more mass to the outer wall, as it "looks" less dense and massive.

cheers

edenorchestra · Post by **edenorchestra** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:35 am

HI Sen,

The outer wall is pretty flimsey fiber board and I would say that air and sound get through for sure. Here is a photo right before I started putting up the studs, I had to raise the building to replace the concrete wall as it had fallen in.

I will take another tomorrow and show more detail.

Thanks so much for responding, I am most appreciative.

Cheers . . .

AVare · Post by **AVare** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:14 am

Is your "exterior fibreboard wall" sealed or can air (and sound) pass through it? If they can (not sealed), you can leave your plans as they are

Regardless of how "sealed" the outer wall is, it will act as a membrane at low frequencies. The only difference is that if it is not sealed, the wall will act as a Helmholtz resonator instead od a panel resonator, in addition to letting sound through.

If it isn't sealed, then the first step is to seal it!

Andre

Eggman · Post by **Eggman** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:32 am

Excuse me for butting in here.....Hey mark!!! Long time... Love the CD...Check your PM..

Doug M

AVare · Post by **AVare** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:13 pm

I never thought I'd find a thread where it fits so well, but here it is. Thanks to Z60611 who created the "soundproofing coat of arms".

Caulk (seal) everything. No triple leaf.

Sen · Post by **Sen** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:19 pm

AVare wrote:
Regardless of how "sealed" the outer wall is, it will act as a membrane at low frequencies. Andre
Hello,
I'm not sure that two sealed and one unsealed leaves of mass would provide WORSE isolation than two sealed leaves.That's basically what you're saying.If Mark sealed the outter wall, by all means GET RID OF THE MIDDLE WALL. But in case of his outter wall which is...
The outer wall is pretty flimsey fiber board and I would say that air and sound get through for sure.

I don't think it will ruin much isolation that the other two walls will provide.
I don't think panel absorbers and Helmholtz resonators have anything to do with this either.But of course, this is just my newby opinion, and please don't quote me on this.I'm certainly still learning and will gladly take any corrections anyone may have for me.

cheers

AVare · Post by **AVare** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:50 pm

I'm certainly still learning and will gladly take any corrections anyone may have for me.

Well, start with this.

http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=1198

Membrane effect just HELD close to the door!

Andre

Sen · Post by **Sen** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:28 pm

yeah, if you read that post you linked to, you will see that I just talked about this thread and was puzzled with Paul's experiment, which brought me back to what I wrote here.
And sorry to Frustrate you Andre, as you said in your post here,
http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=1199.
I did admit I was only learning about this stuff, so I didn't feel you should be frustrated.I'm pretty sure you're still learning too, and that there are some areas you're not an expert in.Have a nice day, and sorry to have frustrated you.

z60611 · Post by **z60611** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:34 pm

edenorchestra:

Green Glue is a relatively new commercially available viscoelastic
(from http://www.audioalloy.com/ )
It's viscoelastic, and cheaper than previous things.

edenorchestra · Post by **edenorchestra** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:38 pm

My super secret viscoelastic material is free . . I have 115, 5 gallon buckets of it.

z60611 · Post by **z60611** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:52 am

edenorchestra: free is good !

edenorchestra · Post by **edenorchestra** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:30 am

Soooooo . . what's the conclusion if any . . can I get away with the current construction? The darker studs are the existing building with the fiber board facing the outside. I was planning to put the sandwiched-viscoelastic drywall on the inner studs and then float another wall inside this on the floating floor. I had planned to fill the area in this photo with insulation (most likely blown in cellulose) for heat as all walls are exposed the outside air. This is a stand alone building.

regards,