I don't expect you to understand...

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:30 am

Delta. the airline I hate to fly.

If I come near any of the forum peepe, I will definitely make sure i can meet/visit, etc...

All My priveledges are on northwest. LOL but I can apply Delta miles to my NWA account

I think.

Now that I am back out on the road again. LOL

Eric Best · Post by **Eric Best** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:43 am

I should have looked at this thread a little sooner. I start to get very busy next week. It is our 1st week of official practices. I just have to bring you phone number with me the next time I go see my mom so I can see if we can get together.

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:23 am

sure cool

313-868-5467 is the best contact # for me.

bigdaddyd · Post by **bigdaddyd** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:16 pm

Interesting thread, I want to post something so I get the email when discussion resumes here.

The ark is sitting on a mountain in turkey. Not a big deal is made about it. there are documentaries,etc. the locals know what it is. If the governments or science made a big deal about it, there goes the big bang theory, evilution(oopl- did I misspell that?

) think a bout it , noahs ark. you cant tell me there weren't people alive before the water hit that said, I need proof that it is going to rain.

My point is, that even if you are a doubter, the creators purpose will move foreward to completion, and people have lost out as a result of disbelief.

I have a few points I would like to throw in for fun, but not now as I have to go.

Just for fun.... Information only.

see ya'll

g

barefoot · Post by **barefoot** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:45 am

bigdaddyd wrote:The ark is sitting on a mountain in turkey. Not a big deal is made about it. there are documentaries,etc. the locals know what it is. If the governments or science made a big deal about it, there goes the big bang theory, evilution(oopl- did I misspell that? ) think a bout it , noahs ark.....

Hey, I'm back to this thread!

Sounds a lot like one of those "Roswell space alien" conspiracy theories, eh bigdaddyd?

Well, here's a cool little synopsis of data that the CIA actually hasn't covered up.

It's from the Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) spacecraft mission that ended late last year. http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect ... y/cbr.html

The third "COBE: Temperature Variations" image is the truly amazing one. It's essentially a map of the universe some 15 Billion years ago, or approximately 300,000 years after the Big Bang. So far, we can't "see" any earlier than this because the universe was too dense and therefore opaque, in just the same way we can't see through stars.

If you don't understand the science described in that link I gave, then you might consider studying a little physics. There are still many mysteries to be solved, but until you have a grasp of the "how, whys, and wherefores" of basic things like blackbody radiation, Doppler shifts, and a tad of relativity, you're really not in a position to contribute meaningfully to any scientific discussion regarding the origins of the universe.

bigdaddyd · Post by **bigdaddyd** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:26 am

I totally agree about science and understanding, and the universe, and If i can quote a few good men, " the more we think we know about, the greater the unknown"

FYI, I am not a holy roller, just an electircian, Father of four, we jam, BBQ steaks and have a few brews, build drag cars, and someone with a huge understanding of the bible.

Scientists themselves admit it when they refer to the big bang theory. Its a theory. There is no poof of a big bang. the universe is so awesome beyond mans puny comprehension that any knowledge of science is as much a faith as belief that the universe was created. I'm ok that others dont want to give credit to a loving, caring creator. Totally cool. My point is-

There is proof. Just think- howcome they (scientists) find fish fossils at the top of mountain peaks buried in either sandstone, or a rock that originally was a sandstone composite that petrified or hardened. Why are most fossils found under huge mounds of dirt. Why did they find a whole herd of mammoths instantly frozen with food in their mouths. Here is the answer

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on this day all the springs of the vast watery deep were broken open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12 And the downpour upon the earth went on for forty days and forty nights...
18 And the waters became overwhelming and kept increasing greatly upon the earth, but the ark kept going on the surface of the waters. 19 And the waters overwhelmed the earth so greatly that all the tall mountains that were under the whole heavens came to be covered. 20 Up to fifteen cubits the waters overwhelmed them and the mountains became covered.

Now, for fun, reason on this. What is a fountain, water shoots up out of it. when it began to rain, this set off the balance and began to pressure the large continents. The water below was squeazed out and picked up a whole lot of sediments. We are talking cubic miles. this rained dirt, fish, you name it, down on the mountain tops, layer sandstone over large parts of the earth , and buried animals, dinasaurs, etc, that are always dug up.
One THEORY(yeah i know, a theory, but it fits) says that this is when the continents began to slide and why one continent fits like a puzzle piece into another. When they crunched to a stop, this formed all the vast mountain ranges that folded under pressure.

Mt st helens put out more sun choking dirt and ash than that stupid asteroid that hit, and people believe that killed the dinasaurs? the earth has a much more detailed answer. It was the flood.

There are sattelite photos of a large perfectly rectangular box on a mountain in turkey. Ive seen them, I believe. I would believe with out seeing them. Ill check back later.....

g

barefoot · Post by **barefoot** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:48 am

bigdaddyd wrote:Scientists themselves admit it when they refer to the big bang theory. Its a theory. There is no poof of a big bang. the universe is so awesome beyond mans puny comprehension that any knowledge of science is as much a faith as belief that the universe was created.

True, scientists do refer to the Big Bang as a theory. We call everything theories these days. It was a lesson learned after Newton's "Laws" were found to be only specific solutions to the more general theories of Quantum Mechanics and Relativity. But scientific theories, in order to be accepted, must have strong reproducible evidence. You can't just make something up or read it in a book and have it stand on equal ground with established theories.

And no, scientific faith is not the same as religious faith. As I've stated before in this thread, scientific faith is based on evidence and reproducibility. When I pick up a fork and let it go, it falls to the floor. Every time I have ever done this the same thing happens. The same thing happens to everyone I have ever known. The same thing has been reported to happen throughout history. So, can I say for 100% certain that the next time I let go of a fork it will drop to the floor? No, nothing in the past can ever prove the future. But the overwhelming historical evidence prompts me to take it on faith that it will indeed always be so. This is the kind of faith that science is built on. And this is a very different sort of faith than religious faith.

Big Bang theory traces its foundations back to the most basic scientific principles. What evidence do the Hebrew Scriptures have for their creation story? And why should we hold this story in any more regard than other creation stories? The Hindu creation story in the Vedas was written at least 500 year before Genesis. Why shouldn't we believe this one instead?

bigdaddyd wrote: There is proof. Just think- howcome they (scientists) find fish fossils at the top of mountain peaks buried in either sandstone, or a rock that originally was a sandstone composite that petrified or hardened. Why are most fossils found under huge mounds of dirt.

I take it that you know little about geology.

bigdaddyd wrote: Now, for fun, reason on this. What is a fountain, water shoots up out of it. when it began to rain, this set off the balance and began to pressure the large continents. The water below was squeazed out and picked up a whole lot of sediments. We are talking cubic miles. this rained dirt, fish, you name it, down on the mountain tops, layer sandstone over large parts of the earth , and buried animals, dinasaurs, etc, that are always dug up.
One THEORY(yeah i know, a theory, but it fits) says that this is when the continents began to slide and why one continent fits like a puzzle piece into another. When they crunched to a stop, this formed all the vast mountain ranges that folded under pressure.

Cute theory. It seems you know almost nothing about geology.

bigdaddyd wrote: Mt st helens put out more sun choking dirt and ash than that stupid asteroid that hit, and people believe that killed the dinasaurs? the earth has a much more detailed answer. It was the flood.

Clearly you know absolutely nothing about geology.

bigdaddyd wrote: There are sattelite photos of a large perfectly rectangular box on a mountain in turkey. Ive seen them, I believe. I would believe with out seeing them. Ill check back later.....

Wow, that's amazing! A big rectangular box on a mountain? I can't imagine what that could be???? I mean, obviously it couldn't be a building. Buildings are only made in the shapes of hyperbolic ellipsoids. And of course, nobody has ever built a building up on a mountain!

barefoot · Post by **barefoot** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:33 am

Oh yeah, it's got to be Noah's Ark. It couldn't be a geological formation, because everyone knows the ground in Turkey is as stable as it gets.

barefoot · Post by **barefoot** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:34 am

And nobody would ever be crazy enough to build a temple or fortess way up on a mountain.

barefoot · Post by **barefoot** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:39 am

Sorry g, couldn't resist teasing you a bit.

bigdaddyd · Post by **bigdaddyd** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:23 am

No, totally fine. My point is this, there are ALWAYS going to be sceptics on either side. Who needs to be a "geologist" to make the points I made. Noone has ever give a real explination why the dinasaurs all died off at once. An event triggered that. Period. The asteroid theory has as many scientific sceptics as believers. You dont have to be a geologist to study the results of other geologist, just a reader- and there has been an event that displaced huge amounts of sedimentary soil. Fish and many other creatures are found on the tops of steep mountains. Of course science has no explination. Even an asteroid induced ice age cant explain that.

so i guess that some of you may be experts in geology- go ahead and give me the explination that explains why all the dinasaurs are extinct, and buried under sediment. A stern accusation that I am uninformed is not proof that Im not well informed. I have researched the evidence and am representing an informed opinion. The important thing is this; the bible says that "just as the days of noah were, so will the days of the son of man be"... noone will take note.

i'll throw out one other thing, and then Ill take a back seat. Most people cant stand religion, so, and I just want to throw something out for all of you too consider, then back off unless asked...

Mathew 24 chapter, apostles ask jesus when will be the conclusion of the system of things.
3 While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”

Read it, form an opinion. It points to the time we are in now. Bible chronology, a more indepth study leads to a specific date, namely the same year as world war one broke out. Again, let the sceptics line up and lash me... I can prove it. this is what took place then-

Revelation 7: 7 And war broke out in heaven: Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

Remember that The devil offered all the Kingdoms of the world to Jesus and he refused... Well down came the devil and he started into his Kingdoms and there has been huge mayhem since.

When this happened can be found in the bible. there is a load of other prophecies that have been fulfilled in the last generation, but here is the Kicker. Take a look at the govenments and what they are dealing with today. A search for peace and security as well as a massive uprising of religious problems. Here is what I will leave you all with-

1 thessilonians 5: 1 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. 2 For YOU yourselves know quite well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying: “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape. 4 But YOU, brothers, YOU are not in darkness, so that that day should overtake YOU as it would thieves, 5 for YOU are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness.

And revelation speaks of a Harlot- "Balbylon the great" riding on the back of the wild beast. Ancient bablylon was the first organized city to oppose the True god with their false beliefs. Their languages were confused, and they spread all over the earth taking their beliefs with them. Fitting then, that babylon the great would be the world empire of false religion, and that the best of revelation depict governments. Let me quote what the bible says will happen soon in front of our very eyes-

Revelation 17: 15 And he says to me: “The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues. 16 And the ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire. 17 For God put [it] into their hearts to carry out his thought, even to carry out [their] one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished.

add those two up, and matthew 24, bible chronology, ;and you arrive at our time. The governments will soon turn on religion and shout out a cry for peace, and this will signal the beginning of the great tribulation that matthew 24 refers to, and then armoggedon. BUT, not to fear, because better things are to come after that...

OK- Im done, critics....ready....set....GO!-

(If anyone should like to know more, email me, not much time left)

Now im going to work on my jam room...

g

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:31 am

bigdaddyd wrote:No, totally fine. My point is this, there are ALWAYS going to be sceptics on either side. Who needs to be a "geologist" to make the points I made. Noone has ever give a real explination why the dinasaurs all died off at once. An event triggered that. Period. The asteroid theory has as many scientific sceptics as believers.

Yes, there are various theories about the mass extinction dinosaurs, but no one doubts that it happened about 65 million years ago. And nobody tries to assert that modern animals like humans existed back then.

Fish and many other creatures are found on the tops of steep mountains. Of course science has no explination.

This is simply wrong, and it really does make me question your most basic understanding of geology. We learn in grade school that mountains are formed by two primary mechanisms, compression and subduction. Compression tends to create rolling mountain ranges like the Applications. Subduction tends to crack the earth and lift up tall jagged mountains like the Alps. This cracking exposes ancient layers of sedimentary rock. In both cases, low-lying earth is pushed upward. So, finding fish fossils on mountaintops is a well known and easily explainable phenomenon.

so i guess that some of you may be experts in geology- go ahead and give me the explination that explains why all the dinasaurs are extinct, and buried under sediment.

Once again, this is basic geology. Sediments are being, and have been, laid down constantly throughout the earth's history. The heat generated by gravity causes the earth to continuously turn itself inside out. Volcanoes erupt and lay down new sediments from deep within the earth. Furthermore the sun constantly showers us with elements generated in its nuclear furnace. Likewise, we are also constantly being bombarded with interplanetary rocks and dust.

There are always mysteries in science. That's its nature. It's a continuous process of discovery. But when scientist run into roadblocks we don't throw up our hands and turn to the Bible, Koran, or Vedas for explanations; especially since those explanations are often completely contradictory to the existing base of scientific knowledge.

About 100 year ago we had some very serious conflicts in physics. Observations of things like blackbody radiation spectra and the mass of radioactively decaying materials could not be explained by Newton's Laws. These were perplexing issues that shook very core of scientific theories of the time. However, the Bible shed no light on these issues, while continued experimentation and theoretical development did. Einstein and Plank ushered in Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. We have perplexing issues in science today. To solve them, once again, we need to collect better data and expand our minds even further. Turning to fairytales is not going to help.

barefoot · Post by **barefoot** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:33 am

That was me by the way

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:27 pm

What is interesting is that "religous" faith is something that can be proven.

For instance in times past prophets who gave a prophecy and it did not come to past got stoned to death.

That is religious faith proving itself. if you are wrong you die. The proof is you said something and it DID NOT come to pass.

If it did, then you were revered.

And understand these were no GENERIC prophecies, these werVERY DETAILED prophecies that were fulfilled in the MOST MINUTE of details

God himself said PROVE ME!!!!

barefoot · Post by **barefoot** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:45 pm

Huh?

I think that's one of the most circular arguments I've ever read.

"I can prove that the fairytale is true because the fairytale says that the fairly tellers' tales came true."