Tiny All-In-One room

Plans and things, layout, style, where do I put my near-fields etc.

Moderators: Aaronw, kendale, John Sayers

Dio
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:26 am
Location: Greece

Re: Tiny All-In-One room

Post by Dio »

RFZ Update.
Two panels 200x60cm of 18cm insulation + 12cm air gap installed in the first reflection points L-R respectively. Results following:
IMG_3315.jpeg
Dio Ministudio RFZ side insulation RT60.jpg
Dio Ministudio RFZ side insulation wtrl.jpg
Dio Ministudio RFZ side insulation spctr.jpg
Dio Ministudio RFZ side insulation fr.jpg
mdat: https://mega.nz/file/k1sERSoZ#TrpUgjJZq ... TpU5qROJzM

Nice things happened here summarized in a word : smoothing. From frequency response to waterfall to Spectrogram, every plot has been beautifully smoothed and this is also easily audible. One interesting thing to notice is that the temporary placement of the amps on the floor (see photo) has effect in the floor cancelation..
The RT is now very short, with is natural with all this insulation, what is not natural and needs investigation is the strange behaviour of the low frequency decay with its ups and downs in every measurement. Anyway generally things improve and as we can see from the before-after rfz panels comparison the listening position is almost free of first strong reflections.
Dio Ministudio RFZ side insulation before-after comarison.jpg
Despite the very low RT the room does not feel dead and been there is not uncomfortable at all, the hard front wall is a good choice.. Listening music in there is apocalyptic I would dare to say, you can observe easily every detail in the recordings and at the same time get involved in the music as a listener, not as a technician, I like that!
One more thing a trained eye can notice in the room photo is the absence of the pc tower, and this is why:
Dio Ministudio pc box.jpg
IMG_3282.jpeg
The box is not sealed yet but the pc working is barely audible only as a low frequency murmur.
Coming next is my last attempt to do something new with my 42hz demon.

DIo
gullfo
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Re: Tiny All-In-One room

Post by gullfo »

42hz -> EQ cut. :-)
Glenn
Dio
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:26 am
Location: Greece

Re: Tiny All-In-One room

Post by Dio »

After a long time back here to continue that small project. What I had was a small cavity between the soffits, ideal to build some limp mass absorbers, why not?
IMG_3316.jpeg
IMG_3342.jpeg
IMG_3345.jpeg
And then painted the soffit wall to look like wood and put some fabric and lights.
IMG_4127.jpeg
To verify thet the absorbers are tuned correctly I swept simple tones from 30 to 55hz and by lightly touching I felt the membrane begin vibrating from 36-38 hz and stop at about 45-47 hz, so I guess the constriction is correct.
Measurements:
Dio ministudio front limp mass wtrl.jpg
Dio ministudio front limp mass spctr.jpg
Dio ministudio front limp mass RT60.jpg
Dio ministudio front limp mass fr.jpg
Dio Ministudio RFZ side insulation - limp mass absorbers comparison ETC.jpg
Dio Ministudio RFZ side insulation - limp mass absorbers comparison FR.jpg
mdat:
https://mega.nz/file/Q8lGVD7J#iu4kbnZol ... qH00LuYmXc

We see that the two mlv absorbers did something in the 40something hz area, but very little, perhaps their 85x165cm surface is not enough? Anyway, they smoothed the upper bass area and that alone is fine.
More to come in a few days..
Dio
gullfo
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Re: Tiny All-In-One room

Post by gullfo »

as noted in Stuart's site, a peak can be reduced via EQ. not that you're EQ'ing your room, but something like a single well-defined peak is a perfect target for energy reduction.
Glenn
Dio
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:26 am
Location: Greece

Re: Tiny All-In-One room

Post by Dio »

I will definitely eq this peak out Glenn, when I will have the room ready for speaker tuning this will be the first target!
Dio
mattsal
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Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:26 am
Location: Valencia, California

Re: Tiny All-In-One room

Post by mattsal »

Looking good Dio!
Dio
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:26 am
Location: Greece

Re: Tiny All-In-One room

Post by Dio »

Hello, I realised that I left this thread with no updates for some time, so here is one!
After making the diaphragmatic absorber (with its not so good performance…) between the speakers, it was the time to finish the plan I had (see post #15) with the angled side slot resonators (wings). The idea was to try to make this tiny room not feeling dead and unpleasant, without further compromising its already difficult acoustics.
So following J Sayers’s paradigm and my own calculations I used 2cm thick wood slats of alternating widths of 5cm, 10cm and 7,5cm and alternating gaps of 8, 12 and 5 mm respectively and cavity varying from 5 to 28 cm acting as a “ramp” from the first reflection absorbers to the end of the room.
Building the left hand wing was easy, just made the frame, bolted on the wall, sealed, put the insulation, the black cloth and the slats and that’s it!
IMG_4136.jpeg
IMG_4137.jpeg
IMG_4140.jpeg
But on the right side there is a window I wanted to somehow keep, so I built an extension in order to put a 1 cm laminated glass on the inside and make an isolated and angled window merged into the slot resonator. Not an easy job for an amateur like me… but with all the mistakes I always make I finally didi it.
IMG_4167.jpeg
IMG_4170.jpeg
IMG_4173.jpeg
IMG_4175.jpeg
One more problem was the heater radiator which I wanted to keep, but its metallic construction sings along even with spoken voice…. not much but noticeable. So I made a smaller wedge resonator, packed it on the radiator with foam between and that was the end of its days as a singer..
IMG_4182.jpeg
IMG_4372.jpeg
And then I made some measurements:
Dio Ministudio both slat wings RT60.jpg
Dio Ministudio both slat wings spctr.jpg
Dio Ministudio both slat wings wtrl.jpg
Dio Ministudio both slat wings fr.jpg
mdat: https://mega.nz/file/Ekd11QDD#OB6Ir3K5F ... EI8vcBzf9M

Now the room is not only functional but also beautiful!
One more super nice thing with this double window is that it has very good isolation from the outer world. Will take measurements on that.

Update following soon.

Cheers,
Dio
gullfo
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Re: Tiny All-In-One room

Post by gullfo »

excellent! i find myself designing a number of rooms with the window in the slat wall - sometimes i use cnc machined plexiglass on the slat side to mimic the slat/slots - mainly on outside looking windows - so the entire surface is acting as one, and the disruption to the view is minimal. i don't often do that for inter-room though as it can be a bit more obscuring than most folks would like.
Glenn
Dio
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:26 am
Location: Greece

Re: Tiny All-In-One room

Post by Dio »

Since I have sort of finished the room, it has been time to eq the speakers. I have a Void Acoustics Digidrive+ and a tri-amped setup, so a lot of flexibility.
After a couple of tries and a ton of eqing I came to this state, with is a big improvement to the previous one.
Dio Ministudio EQ v3 wtrl.jpg
Dio Ministudio EQ v3 spctr.jpg
Dio Ministudio EQ v3 RT60.jpg
Dio Ministudio EQ v3 IR.jpg
Dio Ministudio EQ v3 FR.jpg
.... continues...

dio
Dio
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:26 am
Location: Greece

Re: Tiny All-In-One room

Post by Dio »

But this 40hz resonance was still there strong and proud, so I made the decision to revisit the MLV absorbers.

I drilled two “pressure equalisation holes” (one each) sealed them and re-sealed some parts that the caulk seemed to have cracked.
And then I took some measurements.
And after a few eq refinements finally I was happy!

The 40hz spike is now tamed for good, even without the notch eq it has been drastically damped, I guess now the mlv absorbers do what they were supposed to do…
I finally tried the “House curve” eq that REW has, and kept it, flat is too treble and results to dull and bass-heavy mixes..
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 wtrl.jpg
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 spctr.jpg
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 RT60.jpg
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 IR.jpg
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 FR.jpg
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 house curve wtrl.jpg
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 house curve spctr.jpg
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 house curve RT60.jpg
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 house curve IR.jpg
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 house curve FR.jpg
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 house curve no notch wtrl.jpg
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 house curve no notch spctr.jpg
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 house curve no notch RT60.jpg
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 house curve no notch IR.jpg
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 house curve no notch FR.jpg


And a comparison of the three at 1/3 oct:
Dio Ministudio MLV fix EQ v6 comparison FR.jpg
mdat: https://mega.nz/file/s0cnRSaT#7ynt6sX5S ... MnPau7Fm6Q

It is amazing how this awful tiny room has transformed to something workable and enjoyable..


Now I need to make a proper desk. :wink:

Cheers,
Dio
Dio
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:26 am
Location: Greece

Re: Tiny All-In-One room

Post by Dio »

After utilising the B&K curve and a shallow 6db/oct hipass at 20hz I now have these results :
Dio Ministudio EQ v7 BK curve FR.jpg
Dio Ministudio EQ v7 BK curve FR 3rd octave.jpg
Dio Ministudio EQ v7 BK curve IR.jpg
Dio Ministudio EQ v7 BK curve RT60.jpg
Dio Ministudio EQ v7 BK curve spctr.jpg
Dio Ministudio EQ v7 BK curve wtrl.jpg
A nice comparison between the two curves:
Dio Ministudio EQ EBU-BK curve comparison FR 3rd octave.jpg
and a more natural sound, indeed. No harsh or lacking treble, no dinosauric or absent bass, everything seems (listens??) as it should without any "is that know good?" alerts

Thanks for viewing
Dio
gullfo
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Re: Tiny All-In-One room

Post by gullfo »

congrats!
Glenn
Dio
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:26 am
Location: Greece

Re: Tiny All-In-One room

Post by Dio »

Thanks Glenn!
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