Yeah, but what do I really NEED?!

[Stick]

Actually rather than the pressure treated poles (like telephone poles) I was thinking of concrete piers. Depending on your site it might be cheaper since you usually only need to bring in a backhoe with an auger to drill them versus a dozer and a backhoe and a truck to haul away the dirt.

What you are balancing is the cost of an edge foundation vs the cost of the beams to span between the piers. Enclosing the space underneath may not be so wise because you then need to have some sort of grade-level foundation to support the wall and it may become a hiding place for critters.

Frankly we don't know your site and the costs of construction in your area. This is where talking to your local architect or local contractor will tell you far more than we can.

As for the windows, maybe what you want to do is to have a large window out from your foyer to the outside and then windows from the liive and control rooms to the foyer.

Plenty of room on the site... the house is on 1.4 acres. I could use the dirt elsewhere to fill in for more room for the kiddos to play.

Point taken on construction costs... I'll work on that locally.

Good idea for the window... which brings me to Studio doors with glass in them.... that can't be cheap.

Thanks for the help.

[Innovations]

Wouldn't necessarily put the glass in the door but rather a separate window. You'll have an easier time handling the door and the window as separate issues.

Since costs are a consideration you might consider making the foyer be a soundlock. In oher words a room that is not completely isolated from A or B but which is part of the isolation of the two. Think of it as making a bit of the gap space between the studio and live rooms so wide that it becomes its own room. The downside is that you can't have anybody making noise in the foyer itself while you are working since it is incompletely isolated from either room.

[Stick]

Yeah, that was sort of my thinking... I'll try and get my little drawing out of the cheapo Mac CAD program I found so you can see what I'm thinking.

Thanks for the help.

[knightfly]

Yeah, in the NON-studio world PT normally means Pressure-Treated lumber - I meant to use concrete poured piers in contact with the ground, then use pressure treated floor frame - kind of like Diet Cookie's shed only larger, and since it's on a hill you would need to actually POUR your piers into holes for more stability.

Any friend/relative/indentured servitude you can call into play will help costs - but don't let ANY "experienced" builder tell you how to construct without checking here first - the ones who actually have a clue about sound construction are nearly as rare as the dodo bird. I know, because I was one of them 20 years ago, and I also thought I knew... Steve

[Stick]

So, since I'm no architect, and have no idea how to actually draw real plans for such a glorious studio as is slowly being formed in my head... how would I go about finding an architect that can draw my studio for the permits for the area and whatnot, and for the contractor to build from? Obviously there are tons of details yet to be determined, many of which will depend on what an architect tells me is a good way to build (well, beyond the construction specs we're talking about here)...

Or, maybe I'm going about this in the wrong order? Do I need to get this thing designed myself (with all of your help!), and then give my hack drawings to an architect to draw the real plans? And as always, I'm looking to keep costs under control.

I'm a little overwhelmed by the prospect of all this... especially with work piling up... mixing in the 3rd bedroom in the house is going to suck until this thing is up.

[knightfly]

Not sure if you're aware of this, it's about $200 but allows any PC program to run on mac - even music software. Saw one review of a heavy duty PC multitracking software run on a mac with this installed, no glitches -

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/v ... =virtualpc

Then you could also run any PC based drawing software as well. Still, not cheap...

I'm not sure if you mentioned what your main beef is with your present spare room - acoustics, or sound isolation? If there's any way to ease the problems there, it will take some of the pressure off time-wise and allow you to get this right the first time.

If you do a "cut and fill", sometimes known as a "push-out", be aware that it takes about 4 years for a fill to settle enough by natural means before you can build on it - two ways around this; do a big enough one so that your entire construction sits on the "cut" part, so you're still on naturally compacted earth - or, pay big bux to have it machine compacted - not too practical for a smaller building and budget.

This is another reason why poured piers and "Pro-Tools" framing make sense - you can use a large tractor-mounted auger if necessary, and drill down to solid ground and pour your main piers if the ground is too steep for a "cut only" building pad to be practical.

Since your biggest isolation concern seems to be room to room instead of neighbors (be careful here though) you might be able to just float the tracking room (better outside isolation) and not the CR - you'd still need to frame each room different though, or you'll end up with a step up between rooms.

I would be REALLY careful when engaging ANY professional who has NOT done serious sound studio design - very few seem to have a clue as to what works/doesn't work for isolation, and that can cost you a TON of money for nothing.

If you can alleviate the time crunch with any changes to your existing situation, we can eventually help you work out your best plan of attack - if that's not possible, you might be hard-pressed to accomplish what you want in a short time. I always try to keep in mind what I call the "want" triangle - Good, Fast, Cheap pick any two, you can NEVER have all THREE... Steve

[Stick]

Hi Steve,
Thanks for the helpful posts...

Yeah, there are bigger and better drawing programs for Mac, it's more that I don't know what I should be drawing. I'll give it my best shot and post when I can.

The temp solution of using the 3rd bedroom in the house is really temp. I won't have time to do much work in there anyway, with all the house renovating to oversee.

Yeah, I was the thinking it would be a "cut" and "not fill" sort of thing, where we dig out the whole pad. I'll use the "fill" to increase the flat area around the house... it can settle all it needs to.

As far as isolation, you're right. It's room to room, but at the same time I don't want it to bleed outside too much. A little is fine though, that's why I'm building a separate structure. And, there again, I've cut a few records with a tracking booth separated from my control room by a poorly mounted slider, so I don't think I'm going to have much trouble improving on that.

I've had it suggested to me by the guy that designs the studios and foley rooms at Universal Pictures here in LA that putting the floors on a layer of good ol' styrofoam (yeah, closed cell and all) does a pretty good job of isolating vibration from room to room. So, I'll probably do that instead of getting into floating this and that.

I agree, I don't want some architect out of the yellow pages that has no clue about studios, but at the same time, I still need to have a set of plans to give a contractor and the county for permits. So, I'm not sure how to handle that.

I think over the next week or so, I'll do my best to get you some rough ideas to look at here, and see how far off I am.

I too know that triangle... I'm hopefully on the Good and Cheap side... I'm prepared to live with a sucky set up for awhile (well, we're talking months... not a year) if when it's done, I can work there for many years and be happy.

So, next step? Rough designs from me, so you have an idea where I'm headed.

Thanks a ton... I'd be so much MORE lost without the great help.
Brian

[Stick]

Ok, quick update.

Looks like I'm headed back to the garage. HA!

I think it's going to be cheaper and easier to pull off to build in the nice sized garage. It's still going to be a project, as the existing garage walls need to be revamped to remove some UGLY stone on the exterior, and probably shore up the walls, as they seem to be sagging with the weight of the stone. Anyway, that'll probably work out well, as I can make my outside leaf from the outside, as opposed to having to retrofit the inside.

And, it brings in floating the floor... but I've got 9 feet to work with, so it ought to be feasable. The ceiling will probably be the sticking point... we'll see once I get to some real designs.

More later... once I get a design in the works.

[sharward]

Looks like I'm headed back to the garage. HA!

Aw, mannnnn, I was looking forward to seeing that fresh new building out back. That's got to be quite an adjustment in your thinking.

Did you have a little ceremony when you buried your previous plans?

More later... once I get a design in the works.

Looking forward to it... Maybe you can post some pics of that garage in the meantime, since our (at least my) curiosity is piqued.

[Stick]

Yeah, a new building would be cool, but I think the extra expense and planning department hassle make it tough. And this way we can roll some of the exterior remodel of the house into the studio budget... cause as you'll see the exterior is UGLY.

Over the years I've gotten to the point where plans are just plans. Changing them is not that big a deal... and besides, it all just seems like a big dream off in the distance somewhere. Though, moving out of LA to the hills and trees is a dream I wasn't expecting for awhile in my life. Gotta love it.

Got the 'Rents in town for a few days, but so I'll try and get some photos of what we're dealing with here up next week.