Shipping Container build - feasability study

[Stew]

Hi all,

I've been lurking for some time and quite frankly hurting more poor brain with all the information on these forums. Time for my first post rather than going down more rabbit holes!

Basically the wife wants my noise out of the house! Particularly with the COVID lockdowns, and more working from home, I think she's sick of the sight of me

I know what I'd like to do ... so at this stage I'm looking at whether what I want to do is feasible or not.

I'm thinking of a 20' high cube shipping container build. We own our home (well, the bank does) in a small rural town in Noosa Shire in Queensland Australia. The block is a quarter acre (approx 1000m2). Closest neighbour is around 12-15m away depending on where the container goes, although most are more like 20+m away.

The space is essentially a man cave for my music noodling, computer based mostly but I do play electric guitar and acoustic piano (one of the challenges is that I would like to try and fit the piano in). The space will need to double as my home office - but the office these days is literally a computer and a headset.

I also play Indian style folk music with friends so I'd like to try and keep a space rough 2m x 2m clear so that we can just sit on the floor and jam sometimes - and throw in a few mics to record the goings on.

Volume wise, monitors are typically around 95-100 dB when cranked and guitar can get as loud as 105 dB (it's probably never been that loud in the spare room but I'd like to be able to push it that hard for certain sounds when recording). Those readings are C weighted / Slow Response at 1m from the source and at head height. As I said, that's cranking it - typically volumes are more like 75-80 dB.

I'm not sure exactly how much isolation I need. I would like to be a able to work at night but don't need to push things too loud after dark. I've had no complaints in the 8 years we've been here and often play with the windows and doors open (it is Queensland) at levels around 80-90 dB.

My main monitors are passive - Tannoy System 1000. I plan to soffit mount them, although these are pretty big boxes for such a small space. I also have a pair of AR Red Box II speakers that I'd love to try and incorporate too - just not sure how feasible that is in this space … and a single Avantone Mix Cube

Besides the piano I'd like to have three guitars hung. Other components that will take up space are a 1x12 guitar cabinet, a harmonium and a Mackie Pro16FX V3 mixer. I'm looking at getting a rack case for the Mackie as it will need to be moved in and out when used for live gigs (I've mocked up the rack and where I thought it might fit in the pics).

So, given that I'd like to try and get the piano in, I've tried a layout that would require the container end doors to be closed off and therefore a hole cut for a door in the side of the container. I'm not sure whether it's reasonable to do this with this kind of build, but I thought I would start with what I'd like to do realising there will likely be many compromises along the way.

In my mock-up I downloaded a model of Rod Gervais' "Super Door" design. I've then copied that to the other side of the container - I figure if I can make the door work it would be great to have a window on the other side, so that's what the door without a frame is meant to represent.

I realise most studio entrances are done with double doors but again not sure what's feasible here.

Sorry for the model. I've just started playing with Sketchup so it's pretty rough - things not lined up or to scale - or walls, or studs, or ... you get the idea I was pleased with how it started to give me some visual sense of how it might all go together though.

From what I've seen of previous container builds it looks like the idea is to do a layer of semi-rigid fibreglass next to the metal shell, then an inside out wall. And then to add slat/slot resonators to curb the low-mid issues. I'm not sure how the ceiling works - it looks like some do the same inside out frame and sit that on top of the side/end walls. Is this the best approach? If so, what keeps the insulation between the studs?

Anyway, at this stage it's about working out whether my simplistic design ideas are possible or not - then I can get into the nitty gritty of how to actually build it!

My budget is around $10,000 on top of purchasing the container. $15,000 for everything would be the absolute maximum.

Appreciate any thoughts and advice. The big question is, do you think this is doable for 15 grand?

[John Steel]

Hello & howdo' Stew?

I've been lurking for some time and quite frankly hurting more poor brain with all the information on these forums

Welcome aboard the rollercoaster! Study, perseverance and the accumulated wisdom of the forum will help you to achieve your goal.

I'm not sure exactly how much isolation I need.

I would recommend buying a good quality sound level meter and measuring the environmental noise at the intended location. You can use those figures to base your calculations on.

I've just started playing with Sketchup

Yes, Sketchup presents a very steep learning curve - I'd say it absorbed the greatest investment of time spent on my own project by far. Don't worry, you'll get there - remember to separate out all the parts of your plan to individual layers (clearly labelled) and don't draw from scratch when you can copy & paste!

Anyway, at this stage it's about working out whether my simplistic design ideas are possible or not - then I can get into the nitty gritty of how to actually build it!

I feel sure you must have already seen this - If I were in your position, I would write to anyone and everyone who had built a similar project and humbly ask for their do's, don'ts & what a realistic budget is.http://johnlsayers.com/Studio/Mainpage/MP-Mark.htm
Good luck with your studio Stew - I look forward to reading about your progress on the forum. Best wishes, John.

[Stew]

Hi John,

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I have been furiously reading up about any and all related studio designs ... my head is swimming!

Sparky's various iterations of the container studio are definitely the inspiration. If I had the $$$ I'd get him to build me one.

The comment about not knowning how much isolation I need was in reference to not being sure at what level the neighbours would start complaining. I do have a Radioshack meter which is what I used to check my monitoring and guitar levels. Local environmental noise is significantly less than my guitar when cranked

I actually found your blog the other day too so plenty of fabulous info there for me to digest as well. The section on HVAC has been very informative.

This comment about Sketchup: "... remember to separate out all the parts of your plan to individual layers (clearly labelled) and don't draw from scratch when you can copy & paste!" ... is gold! I will definitely take that to heart.

A bit disheartening to hear that your design took so much effort. I just want to start building - but I realise that's a recipe for disaster and a lot of wasted effort and money. Oh well ... better stop this reply here and get back to Sketchup

Thanks again.
Stew

[DanDan]

Sketchup is difficult. Apps these days tend to be way better than the old cheap SLMs. Most have Z weighting which fully includes Bass in the measurement. They also integrate a say 1Minute 'dose'. Leq. This is much more reliable than eyeballing a changing peak number.
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/noise/app.html

Shipping containers have benefits, security! But acoustically not great dimensions. Are they cheaper than a traditional build?

[Stew]

Thanks DanDan ... I'll check out that app.

As I said I think the biggest issue is how loud I'll be, so provided I can keep that down to acceptable levels I should be ok. We're on a decent size block so the neighbours aren't too close and (most of the time) my monitoring levels aren't too hot (see 1st post).

To answer your question re cost of shipping container versus other - I haven't priced the alternative/s to be honest.
However this is what I figure:

* The container by it's nature provides the outer skin for the build. If I were to do a stand-alone construction I'd have to figure in a slab (on sloped ground) and then the outer walls and roof. I imagine this would be significantly more expensive than purchasing the container and whatever footings it requires (waiting to hear back from council on that).

* Then if I build to the same dimensions as the container I'm kind of defeating the purpose of a stand-alone build. I'd imagine if I went down that track the tendency would be to make the build bigger to make for more favourable dimensions. Where every m2 adds to the build and material costs. Of course a bigger room may also need a bigger HVAC solution too -> $$$.

* A purpose built structure then becomes a fixture of the property and I'm not sure what it would cost would be offset by it's worth to others if we decide to sell down the track. At least with the container I can get a truck in and ship it off to a new location.

It's not a commercial facility and doesn't need to accommodate a lot of people. Typically I'll be the only one in there, although on occasions I might have a couple of friends join me - no more cramped than my current setup in the spare bedroom though.

John's done these designs before and by all accounts the sound inside is quite balanced. The owner of the "original" container studio, Sparky (Mark Paltridge) lives about an hour from where I am. John's Spark1 design for him is what got me thinking I could actually afford a dedicated space for my hobby.

Sparky's now got his own business making container studios. Apparently they are made ready to ship worldwide. The great thing for me is that he has loads of great build photos on his Facebook page. Between those, the various designs I've found online and the huge experience on these forums I actually think I might be able to pull this off - with a little (!) help from my friends.

That's the reason I made my first post. I realise now that it probably hasn't had much interest because a) it's a very specific build but b) I didn't ask any specific "how to" questions (don't worry, they're coming). But I was just trying to gauge whether I could pull this off or not for such little money - the deeper I look into it the more I'm believing it's possible.

... and this doesn't have to be a perfect studio environment either. I was a studio engineer in a previous life, mostly in Melbourne (AUS) but spent almost 3 years in London learning the trade, so I've worked in some great rooms in my day. I've also worked in budget studios and had various home studio setups of my own. Bottom line is I can be pretty adaptable ... it's just about getting to know the room. As long as I can make a space that's comfortable to be and has had some thought put into the acoustic design it's likely to sound far better than some places I've been in (including the current cube-shaped bedroom).

Sparky's latest designs cost $100k by the way, so that's not an option