Tying Together Walls & Ceilings

[BradJacob]

Hey Everyone,

I thing I need some help. Here's my situation in my basement studio:

I have a distance of 7'-10" to the bottom of the house's floor joists. The top metal-track of my walls will be attached to these joists and sheetrocked up to the track. I will then install the ceiling.

1. Is attaching the metal-track to the joists the correct method?

2. What about the gaps between the joists and the sub floor on the top of the joists?

3. In a basement setting, do I need to install metal track on some sort of foam-rubber -or- can I get away with NOT doing it?


Ceiling
Now do I install some track around the perimeter of the walls and frame in the studs for the ceiling (like a wall) -or- do I install R. channel directly onto the joists and then CAULK in where the ceiling meets the walls?

What would be the correct methods or approaches to doing this?

Thanks - And As Alway - Any Help Is Very Much Appreciated!!

- Brad

[Innovations]

If the wall is separating two spaces that need to be isolated from each other then I would carry the sheathing to the deck. depending on the depth of the joist you could either cantilever it or screw a track to the deck to support the top edge. Caulk the cracks of course.

I would look at some sort of cushioning material on the top of the track mostly to isolate the wall from footfall noices from the floor above.

Since your ceiling height is limited Knightfly did a diagram a while back of how to do the isolation and absorbtion between the joists to preserve ceiling height.

[Aaronw]

Brad,

Take a look at my thread. There's lots of diagrams, and pictures that show what I did in my basement...

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=839

Most of the pictures are the last few pages. The topic has more than just the floor.

Aaron

[BradJacob]

Brad,

Take a look at my thread. There's lots of diagrams, and pictures that show what I did in my basement...

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=839

Most of the pictures are the last few pages. The topic has more than just the floor.

Aaron

Aaron,

Wow - that's quite a PDF! Can't I simplify things by just applying 2 coats of DryLok paint, then hanging some plastic, then putting Rock-Wool in the metal studs, then covering with 2 layers of Rock? Would this be acceptable?

- Brad

[Aaronw]

I used the Drylok on the brick to help keep out water. I had a moisture problem down there when I first moved in last year. Rerouted the drainage from the gutters too.

What I did, so the room could "breath", was I spaced the floor and walls 4 1/2" away from the block. This way I wouldn't have to be concerned w/ any future mold problems in my new construction. Part of the reason I went out so far from the block also, was because of a termite shield that is there between the block and wood framing of the house. And it stuck out a few inches.

Having the space also allows my dehumidifier to help pull out any moisture that may accumulate over time.

Which PDF did you look at? The one Steve posted on basement mold problems?

[BradJacob]

I used the Drylok on the brick to help keep out water. I had a moisture problem down there when I first moved in last year. Rerouted the drainage from the gutters too.

What I did, so the room could "breath", was I spaced the floor and walls 4 1/2" away from the block. This way I wouldn't have to be concerned w/ any future mold problems in my new construction. Part of the reason I went out so far from the block also, was because of a termite shield that is there between the block and wood framing of the house. And it stuck out a few inches.

Having the space also allows my dehumidifier to help pull out any moisture that may accumulate over time.

Which PDF did you look at? The one Steve posted on basement mold problems?

The BIG pdf on basement insulation and such... So will the DryLok work in sealing my basement? It's brand-new and the walls are poured - not brick. (It's pretty dry without any paint - there's no water coming in)

Thanks,

- Brad

[Aaronw]

It wouldn't hurt to seal the walls. You don't want to seal the floor. Is this a farely new construction? Do you know what type of construction or sealing they did on the foundation from the outside or built into the wall?

[BradJacob]

It wouldn't hurt to seal the walls. You don't want to seal the floor. Is this a farely new construction? Do you know what type of construction or sealing they did on the foundation from the outside or built into the wall?

The house is brand new with 7-10" cellings in the basement. They poured the walls (8 inch walls) and used a black tar-like sealer on the outside of the walls. I "think" they may have covered the outside of the walls with the pink Styrafoam as well - not sure though. let me ask you some questions - if you wouldn't mind?

1. Do you have pictures of your studio and it's construction?
2. How did you do YOUR walls?
3. Did you use ANY sound-deadening boards such as Homaoste?

- Brad

[Aaronw]

1. Do you have pictures of your studio and it's construction?

If you look at the sticky (I posted the link above) on "Floating Floor over basement concrete", you'll see all the pictures of the studio. There's also a link in there that goes over to a design thread I had under the "studio design". It was called "Ready to start construction. Any last minute advice?" You'll see all the diagrams, drawings, pictures, etc. as well.

2. How did you do YOUR walls?

See pics as stated above. The control room: steel studs on top of floating floor, isolated from house structure w/ brackets. RC and 2 layers 5/8" drywall.

3. Did you use ANY sound-deadening boards such as Homaoste?

No. I didn't use homasote. I used Roxul mineral wool for my insulation, and constructing each wall as a "double wall" design.

I just measured the other night, my first double wall area that's complete. From drywall to drywall...total thickness is 13".

Aaron

[BradJacob]

1. Do you have pictures of your studio and it's construction?

If you look at the sticky (I posted the link above) on "Floating Floor over basement concrete", you'll see all the pictures of the studio. There's also a link in there that goes over to a design thread I had under the "studio design". It was called "Ready to start construction. Any last minute advice?" You'll see all the diagrams, drawings, pictures, etc. as well.

2. How did you do YOUR walls?

See pics as stated above. The control room: steel studs on top of floating floor, isolated from house structure w/ brackets. RC and 2 layers 5/8" drywall.

3. Did you use ANY sound-deadening boards such as Homaoste?

No. I didn't use homasote. I used Roxul mineral wool for my insulation, and constructing each wall as a "double wall" design.

I just measured the other night, my first double wall area that's complete. From drywall to drywall...total thickness is 13".

Aaron

Aaron,

Do I *need* to float my floors?
In my basement, what kinds of sounds would transmit through the floor?
Would these noises "pollute" a particular room?

I guess I'm asking these questions because of budget... I saw your pic of your floated floor and WOW!!! What a nice job.

Two quesrions here:

1. Do you have any pics of the walls being built?
2. Do you have any pics of the COMPLETED studio


Thanks SO Much,

- Brad

[knightfly]

Brad, I think before anyone but you could answer your questions about need for floating floors we'd need more info on what you intend to do there - for example, live acoustic drums at 2 AM while your wife sleeps would be one extreme - mixing on headphones (yucchh!!) and using electronic drums, DI bass, etc, would be the other extreme.

Concrete, while having a lot of mass and working well as one leaf of a double leaf sound barrier, also transmits sound along its own plane pretty well - so if you have any areas that are structurally coupled to the concrete AND the rest of your house, you will get a fair amount of noise into those areas due to flanking - the sound gets into the concrete, travels the length of the concrete, transfers to the upper framing, then to the wallboard and flooring and ceiling panels, finally radiating into the other living space. The two worst frequency bands are usually the lows, and any common coincident frequencies (coincidence for sheet rock runs around 2k to 3 kHz typically)

Bottom line - if you're closer to the first example, plan on a floating floor, walls and ceiling floated/suspended, double 5/8" wallboard, etc - Also plan this way if your neighbors' noises ever bother you (lawn mowers, muscle cars, subwoofers, etc)

Hope that helps... Steve

[Aaronw]

1. Do you have any pics of the walls being built?

Yes.

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... &start=212

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... &start=228

If you need additional pix, drop me an email and I'll send them over.

2. Do you have any pics of the COMPLETED studio

I'm still under construction. Not much has changed since the last pictures I posted on the above links...It's that stuff called money or lack of, that's holding me back...

I only just started this full construction on the studio the first week of January. And for doing it all myself, I think it's coming along just fine.

It's amazing how all your friends disappear when you start construction. They'll be back when it's done... but it's gonna cost 'em.

So far I've managed to escape the "Free studio time" exchange. Been paying w/ Beer, BBQ & Whiskey.



Aaron

[BradJacob]

Brad, I think before anyone but you could answer your questions about need for floating floors we'd need more info on what you intend to do there - for example, live acoustic drums at 2 AM while your wife sleeps would be one extreme - mixing on headphones (yucchh!!) and using electronic drums, DI bass, etc, would be the other extreme.

Concrete, while having a lot of mass and working well as one leaf of a double leaf sound barrier, also transmits sound along its own plane pretty well - so if you have any areas that are structurally coupled to the concrete AND the rest of your house, you will get a fair amount of noise into those areas due to flanking - the sound gets into the concrete, travels the length of the concrete, transfers to the upper framing, then to the wallboard and flooring and ceiling panels, finally radiating into the other living space. The two worst frequency bands are usually the lows, and any common coincident frequencies (coincidence for sheet rock runs around 2k to 3 kHz typically)

Bottom line - if you're closer to the first example, plan on a floating floor, walls and ceiling floated/suspended, double 5/8" wallboard, etc - Also plan this way if your neighbors' noises ever bother you (lawn mowers, muscle cars, subwoofers, etc)

Hope that helps... Steve

Steve,

Thanks for jumping in and offering up some advise. I will be asking a lot of questions throughout my construction of my studio. Here's some background on me and my studio:

I'm a carpenter (by original trade - now a biz-anaylist) so I'm familiar with all aspects of drywall, framing and so on. What I would like my studio to be able to handle is:
1. Bands recording CD's (5 to 6 piece bands)
2. Yes for loud drums and amp-ed bass
3. Yes for loud (and awful) singers - LOL!!
4. I want the control room people to be able to have a conversation while the band is playing or tracking.

I originally planned to use Homasote and one layer of rock. But everything I read tells me not to and that nobody really uses Homasote 440 boards?

I want to float my (at the very least) my control room floor - and probably the live room as well. (ISO - prbably not, as the will be used for overdubs and tracking vox - usually when nobody else is playing).

So, what do ya think Steve?

I've attached my drawing - check it out and maybe make some suggestions? (Any suggestions...)

Thanks So Much,

- Brad

[knightfly]

If you're gonna have glass at one side, you might wanna think about splaying the walls - otherwise, you'll get early reflections and phasing problems at the mix position due to reflections off the glass. Somewhere in the design forum there's a pic of one john did that's better for this.

Otherwise, about all I could suggest is a couple of angled gobo's for mixdown time - placed at an angle on each side of the mix position, closer together at the speaker end, so they redirect early reflections AWAY from the mix position.

Better if you can change that middle wall - I'll try to find the pic I'm thinking of... Steve

[BradJacob]

If you're gonna have glass at one side, you might wanna think about splaying the walls - otherwise, you'll get early reflections and phasing problems at the mix position due to reflections off the glass. Somewhere in the design forum there's a pic of one john did that's better for this.

Otherwise, about all I could suggest is a couple of angled gobo's for mixdown time - placed at an angle on each side of the mix position, closer together at the speaker end, so they redirect early reflections AWAY from the mix position.

Better if you can change that middle wall - I'll try to find the pic I'm thinking of... Steve

Steve,

Check this new updated drawing out...

- Brad