Need help with vocal booth/ room dimensions

[flyguyz]

Hi,

I have a small-medium size space to work with that I am looking for some help on determining dimensions for a vocal booth that I will build inside the room.

The overall room dimensions are:
H = 94" (7'10") to the drop ceiling
W = 187" (15'7")
L = 316" (26'4")

I have attached a rough sketch, not drawn to size, of a simple layout I was thinking of constructing. (Closet can be left out of design if the space is needed)

I am not concerned with keeping noise in or out of the main control room, and therefore, do not plan on doing any special construction to the exterior walls. I plan on leaving them as is. Currently the room is your typcial office room setup with drywall, and carpet (ill be replacing with wood or fake wood), drop ceiling tiles, and the walls have the power strips that wrap around the entire 4 walls. There is also what looks like a split A/C unit on the wall which I will be placing the couch against.

I want to build an inside out vocal booth inside this room to record vocals in. I do want to keep outside noise from interfering with the vocal recordings. I was thinking of following a similar build to the vocal booth design posted here on this forum. Double drywall - inside out.

Im hoping someone could give me an optimal design/layout (dimensions) I could use for this space. I am not sure how large i should make the booth, and how large to keep the control room based on my room dimensions. I would like to keep the construction as simple as possible as I will be building this myself and would like to stay away from angled walls and what not unless absolutely necessary. I am open to options though. Also, As far as the floor of the vocal booth is concerned, can this be built straight on the concrete floor? Just lay my preferred flooring on top of the concrete per recommended manufacture spec? Or do I need to build a raised floor and try to isolate the booth even further?

Please help as I would like to get started on this project as soon as possible.

Thank you!

[Gregwor]

I'd rotate your control room so that you are looking to the right of the picture. That way, your firing your speakers down the longer length of the room. I'd ditch the closet (it sounds like you're okay with that idea) and have the entrance to your ISO room straight in front of you. That way, you can maintain good sight lines to the singer through doors with glass in them.

I am looking for some help on determining dimensions for a vocal booth that I will build inside the room.

This can be any size you want it to be as long as you don't have similar dimensions within 5% of one another. A small booth is never going to sound amazing, so maybe try to get a great control room size happening and see what dimensions that leaves for your ISO room.

H = 94" (7'10") to the drop ceiling

What is above the dropped ceiling tile? How much room do you have up there? You need to have room for your HVAC silencers. If there isn't enough room for the silencers there, you might have to have an area to the side for them (like where you have the closet right now)

do not plan on doing any special construction to the exterior walls.

What are the exterior walls made out of? You may want to do an inside out room, but if your walls are concrete, you're going to have to make sure you build the wall far enough away from the exterior wall to allow for a low enough resonant frequency to provide you with the necessary transmission loss.

I will be building this myself and would like to stay away from angled walls and what not unless absolutely necessary.

That is no problem! You will probably have to build some 45 degree corner traps though!

As far as the floor of the vocal booth is concerned, can this be built straight on the concrete floor? Just lay my preferred flooring on top of the concrete per recommended manufacture spec? Or do I need to build a raised floor and try to isolate the booth even further?

Hard surfaces, specifically concrete, is the best material you can have for a floor! As little/thin underlay as you can in order to avoid creating a resonant chamber under the floor. Raising the floor will do nothing for you other than cause you more headache. Concrete floor = awesome. Build your walls on the concrete and you'll be set.

Please help as I would like to get started on this project as soon as possible.

I'd consider the project started as soon as you drew that sketch and posted on here. However, before you screw or nail any wood together, learn how to use a 3D modelling program (we all recommend SketchUp Make here on the forum) and design your space 110%. That way, you'll know exactly how big everything needs to be and where to put it. Finding room for HVAC is always a major issue in every build. Calculating everything to make that ventilation work takes some time, moreover calculating the sizes of your boxes to fit within the space you have available. If you don't do this, your room will suffer. I know you're anxious to get hammering in nails, but I assure you, you will probably end up finishing at the same time if you start now and make major mistakes along the way compared to planning it out (like every professional builder does in the world) and hopefully making no mistakes.

What's your budget for the room?
This is an actual office building shared with other tenants?
Are you only ever going to be recording vocals and no other instruments?
Do you have access to the space right now?
If so, have you set up a speaker in the room and taken measurements outside your room to see how much isolation exists as is?
Do you have sound limitations placed on you by law?

You really should download and learn the basics of SketchUp Make and draw up your plan. Once you have a layout that you're happy with and no one on here has complaints about, calculate your HVAC needs and find room for your silencers. From there, figure out all of the fine details like (what doors are you going to buy or build, what will you use for glass, silica calculations, door seals, door hinges, door closers, ceiling joists, insulation, duct connectors, inline duct fans, lights, smoke/fire alarms, security, electrical (lights on one leg, outlets on another leg), control room type (LEDE, RFZ, etc, etc), speaker placement/mounting (sorbothane calculations, speaker ventilation), acoustic treatment (this will determine furniture placement as you will probably need 15+ inches worth of hangers/insulation on your rear wall), do ray tracing, low voltage wiring (how you will ensure you'll maintain your isolation while getting audio and digital lines into/out of the ISO room), etc, etc
As I'm sure you can see, if you just start building, you'll miss one of these things and then have to undo and change the build. It will then cost you more time and money in the end. Plan it down to every fine detail, then build.

Greg

[flyguyz]

I'd rotate your control room so that you are looking to the right of the picture. That way, your firing your speakers down the longer length of the room. I'd ditch the closet (it sounds like you're okay with that idea) and have the entrance to your ISO room straight in front of you. That way, you can maintain good sight lines to the singer through doors with glass in them.

Thanks for such a detailed response! The roation is a good suggestion, Only concern I have is that I was planning on using a large tv as a second monitor which would be placed above my desk and current monitor. If i did this with the booth directly in front of me then I would be blocking the view into the booth with the TV. I may just have to ditch the tv idea.

I am looking for some help on determining dimensions for a vocal booth that I will build inside the room.

This can be any size you want it to be as long as you don't have similar dimensions within 5% of one another. A small booth is never going to sound amazing, so maybe try to get a great control room size happening and see what dimensions that leaves for your ISO room.

Thanks, the 5% rule should help me narrow it down.

H = 94" (7'10") to the drop ceiling

What is above the dropped ceiling tile? How much room do you have up there? You need to have room for your HVAC silencers. If there isn't enough room for the silencers there, you might have to have an area to the side for them (like where you have the closet right now)

There are pipes and other infrastructure above ( I may have some clearance to put hvac silencers above at certain points though, I will have to look into this. How much additional clearance do you think I will need for this? I could do it on the side if necessary, just wouldn't look as pleasing to the eye. Also, do you have any good references for which fans to use, and what size fans depending on vocal booth size?

do not plan on doing any special construction to the exterior walls.

What are the exterior walls made out of? You may want to do an inside out room, but if your walls are concrete, you're going to have to make sure you build the wall far enough away from the exterior wall to allow for a low enough resonant frequency to provide you with the necessary transmission loss.

I will be building this myself and would like to stay away from angled walls and what not unless absolutely necessary.

That is no problem! You will probably have to build some 45 degree corner traps though!

Glad to hear I can get by with a simple construction. I absolutely plan on building bass traps for the corners!

As far as the floor of the vocal booth is concerned, can this be built straight on the concrete floor? Just lay my preferred flooring on top of the concrete per recommended manufacture spec? Or do I need to build a raised floor and try to isolate the booth even further?

Hard surfaces, specifically concrete, is the best material you can have for a floor! As little/thin underlay as you can in order to avoid creating a resonant chamber under the floor. Raising the floor will do nothing for you other than cause you more headache. Concrete floor = awesome. Build your walls on the concrete and you'll be set.

Awesome!

Please help as I would like to get started on this project as soon as possible.

I'd consider the project started as soon as you drew that sketch and posted on here. However, before you screw or nail any wood together, learn how to use a 3D modelling program (we all recommend SketchUp Make here on the forum) and design your space 110%. That way, you'll know exactly how big everything needs to be and where to put it. Finding room for HVAC is always a major issue in every build. Calculating everything to make that ventilation work takes some time, moreover calculating the sizes of your boxes to fit within the space you have available. If you don't do this, your room will suffer. I know you're anxious to get hammering in nails, but I assure you, you will probably end up finishing at the same time if you start now and make major mistakes along the way compared to planning it out (like every professional builder does in the world) and hopefully making no mistakes.

I have downloaded the sketch up online and will try to get a rough sketch going

What's your budget for the room?
This is an actual office building shared with other tenants?
Are you only ever going to be recording vocals and no other instruments?
Do you have access to the space right now?
If so, have you set up a speaker in the room and taken measurements outside your room to see how much isolation exists as is?
Do you have sound limitations placed on you by law?

Im honestly trying to build this as cheap as possible without suffering quality/isolation of the vocal booth build. Im Hoping I can keep it between 1-3k. Not sure how realistic that is, (I will find out as I create a more detailed plan), but I am only going to need to pay for materials to construct the booth, and treat the room. I am hoping that this space I am renting will be a stepping stone to a new and improved location in 2-5 years. So I am not trying to invest heavily into the space, I am not looking for a cutting edge, top of the line, studio build, I am just tyring to have it be functional and be able to create an accurate mix. I will be using it more as a project studio, to record vocals over beats I have produced (or others have produced). I am not going to be soundproofing the control room as I am not concerned with noise in and out of the main room. I am only concerned with isolating the vocal booth. I don't plan on tracking instruments inside the booth, just vocals. The construction of the exterior walls, i'm assuming, is one sheet of drywall on each side of a wooden framed wall. I was told by the owner that after 4pm there is no noise issue and that I do not need to worry about soundproofing the space. Before 4pm I will just use headphones if I need to mix or track. I do have access to the space now, my lease officially starts May 1st, but I dont plan on taking measurements outside the room as this will not be a concern.

You really should download and learn the basics of SketchUp Make and draw up your plan. Once you have a layout that you're happy with and no one on here has complaints about, calculate your HVAC needs and find room for your silencers. From there, figure out all of the fine details like (what doors are you going to buy or build, what will you use for glass, silica calculations, door seals, door hinges, door closers, ceiling joists, insulation, duct connectors, inline duct fans, lights, smoke/fire alarms, security, electrical (lights on one leg, outlets on another leg), control room type (LEDE, RFZ, etc, etc), speaker placement/mounting (sorbothane calculations, speaker ventilation), acoustic treatment (this will determine furniture placement as you will probably need 15+ inches worth of hangers/insulation on your rear wall), do ray tracing, low voltage wiring (how you will ensure you'll maintain your isolation while getting audio and digital lines into/out of the ISO room), etc, etc
As I'm sure you can see, if you just start building, you'll miss one of these things and then have to undo and change the build. It will then cost you more time and money in the end. Plan it down to every fine detail, then build.

I will try to use sketchup for the final build, I will probably post some more rough sketches free hand or other quick computer aided sketch until I am ready to do a final model for construction purposes if that is ok with everyone here. Could you provide me a rough sketch of the 15+ inches of hangers/isolation you are referring to on the rear wall. How would that look if I rotated the layout as you suggested. Im having a hard time visualizing that.
Greg

[Gregwor]

If i did this with the booth directly in front of me then I would be blocking the view into the booth with the TV. I may just have to ditch the tv idea.

I'd recommend orienting your screens side by side and if you are wanting producers or other musicians to see what you're doing, use video over cat6 adaptors. Personally, I have screens set up for musicians (in the booth or live room... and even in the control room) and it's helped so much. Being able to communicate bar numbers and not have to explain where they're off time has taken away so much frustration and saved so much time.

How much additional clearance do you think I will need for this? I could do it on the side if necessary, just wouldn't look as pleasing to the eye. Also, do you have any good references for which fans to use, and what size fans depending on vocal booth size?

I haven't run the numbers, but let's say you're supplying your vocal booth with 4" round duct, you'll probably going to need 9-10" of height (assuming you can have pancake style silencers up there. For inline fans, it all comes down to how many CFM you need to push/pull through. Once you figure out those numbers (get your room layout, you'll then know your size. Aim for at least 6 air changes per hour and air velocity equal to or slower than 300 feet per minute), you can figure out what fan you need.

Im Hoping I can keep it between 1-3k.

I understand you not wanting to invest tons into a rental spot that you see as temporary. But with that budget, it probably won't look sexy! Once you SketchUp your design, you'll be able to call around and get pricing for things like glass and door material so that you can get a better idea of what materials will cost.

Could you provide me a rough sketch of the 15+ inches of hangers/isolation you are referring to on the rear wall.

Here on John's recording manual, there are some sketches of them!
http://johnlsayers.com/Recmanual/Titles/Acoustics2.htm
It might be cheaper to just use batts of Owens Corning R24 on your back wall as homasote (the stuff the insulation is wrapped around on the hangers) is pretty expensive stuff. You'll just need to have partitions as the R24 will compress itself and change it's density/performance.

I will try to use sketchup for the final build

Don't try. Do. And start now. No more hand drawings. Force yourself to learn the stuff

Greg

[flyguyz]

If i did this with the booth directly in front of me then I would be blocking the view into the booth with the TV. I may just have to ditch the tv idea.

I'd recommend orienting your screens side by side and if you are wanting producers or other musicians to see what you're doing, use video over cat6 adaptors. Personally, I have screens set up for musicians (in the booth or live room... and even in the control room) and it's helped so much. Being able to communicate bar numbers and not have to explain where they're off time has taken away so much frustration and saved so much time.
Thanks for the tip

How much additional clearance do you think I will need for this? I could do it on the side if necessary, just wouldn't look as pleasing to the eye. Also, do you have any good references for which fans to use, and what size fans depending on vocal booth size?

I haven't run the numbers, but let's say you're supplying your vocal booth with 4" round duct, you'll probably going to need 9-10" of height (assuming you can have pancake style silencers up there. For inline fans, it all comes down to how many CFM you need to push/pull through. Once you figure out those numbers (get your room layout, you'll then know your size. Aim for at least 6 air changes per hour and air velocity equal to or slower than 300 feet per minute), you can figure out what fan you need.
Ok thanks, I will revisit this after I get a sketchup model going

Im Hoping I can keep it between 1-3k.

I understand you not wanting to invest tons into a rental spot that you see as temporary. But with that budget, it probably won't look sexy! Once you SketchUp your design, you'll be able to call around and get pricing for things like glass and door material so that you can get a better idea of what materials will cost.
I may have to scale back on the "sexiness" level depending on how the numbers look

Could you provide me a rough sketch of the 15+ inches of hangers/isolation you are referring to on the rear wall.

Here on John's recording manual, there are some sketches of them!
http://johnlsayers.com/Recmanual/Titles/Acoustics2.htm
It might be cheaper to just use batts of Owens Corning R24 on your back wall as homasote (the stuff the insulation is wrapped around on the hangers) is pretty expensive stuff. You'll just need to have partitions as the R24 will compress itself and change it's density/performance.
Thanks for the link. Initially, I was just planning on building corner bass traps floor to ceiling. Is the entire wall with hangers necessary?

I will try to use sketchup for the final build

Don't try. Do. And start now. No more hand drawings. Force yourself to learn the stuff
It took me wayyy to long to do this, and it is not perfect, bare with me as I try to figure out how to use this program. I have attached a rough sketch of the room, and threw in the sketchup model of the vocal booth from this forum. I will not be using this exact plan as shown, but will modify it to fit my needs. My first question is, when I build my inside-out booth can I construct it as shown (right up against the wall) ? Or do i need to have air gap between booth and control room walls. Can I leave the control room walls as is if I am not concerned with sound traveling in/out of the control room?
Greg

[Gregwor]

I may have to scale back on the "sexiness" level depending on how the numbers look

To build a sexy control room with flush mounted speakers and such like your current SketchUp would definitely be over your budget.

Is the entire wall with hangers necessary?

It sure helps.

It took me wayyy to long to do this, and it is not perfect, bare with me as I try to figure out how to use this program. I have attached a rough sketch of the room, and threw in the sketchup model of the vocal booth from this forum. I will not be using this exact plan as shown, but will modify it to fit my needs.

So I tried to quickly answer you question on a laptop with no mouse and little time, so excuse MY drawings haha. Here's how I pictured your layout (not with these room sizes or anything of course).

Layout 1.jpg

Layout 2.jpg

So the big area will be your control room, with the door going into the booth right in front of your mix position, centred in the middle of your room (symmetry is very important for mixing). Having space on both the left and right of your booth for the HVAC silencer boxes will be important. Supply on one side, return on the other. This would be the easiest way to build it in my opinion.

My first question is, when I build my inside-out booth can I construct it as shown (right up against the wall) ? Or do i need to have air gap between booth and control room walls. Can I leave the control room walls as is if I am not concerned with sound traveling in/out of the control room?

You can leave the control room portion as is, yes. But around the vocal booth, your outer leaf will probably need to be addressed. The concrete portion will be fine. The wooden framed portion will need to beefed up (it looks like it's only the one wall... and luckily only a portion of it!) You will tear off the existing drywall that is up on it (on your side of the wall) and cut strips of 5/8" drywall and put them on. You seal it with Green Glue sealant, put some Green Glue compound between the drywall, and then hold it in place using cleats (just little strips of wood). I'd have to see a pic of the ceiling (with the tiles off) to see how you could go about addressing the ceiling, but that's definitely a concern. You might have to frame it up to complete a decent outer leaf. Regarding your inside out booth right against the wall, no, you can't build it right up against it. You need to leave a decent gap. I'd say at LEAST 4 inches. More, the better. Luckily, if you build it the way I drew it, your silencer walls will be a great distance from the outer leaf walls.

Maybe someone else can chime in with some ideas here. But with your budget, it's going to be tight. Material costs are outrageous these days.

Greg

[Soundman2020]

I'd rotate your control room so that you are looking to the right of the picture.

Definitely! That's a really nice sized room: Low ceiling, unfortunately, but around 400 ft2 floor area, so it would be possible to have the room oriented "sideways" (the way you show it in your diagram), but you would not be able to use diffusion in the rear wall with only 15' length to play with. On the other hand, if you rotate it as Greg suggested, there's PLENTY of room to the back of the room to be able to use diffusion. You can have deep bass trapping AND diffusion with that orientation. You can even get the couch into a much better acoustic location, well away from the rear wall, so your client / the producer / musicians / WAGs, etc will be able to hear the mix from the couch with much smoother response, closer to what you will be hearing at the mix position.

There is also what looks like a split A/C unit on the wall which I will be placing the couch against.

It might be better if you can get that moved to the middle of the rear wall (assuming you do rotate the orientation). If not, then that's OK too.

Im hoping someone could give me an optimal design/layout (dimensions) I could use for this space. I am not sure how large i should make the booth,

Basically, as large as possible! Small rooms sound "boxy", and there's nothing you can do to fix that. The boxy sound will be in your mics, since it is ingrained into the actual acoustic response of the booth, and cannot be treated. It can be damped a little, but then the booth sounds dead and unpleasant. Larger booths have less of that problem. The larger it is, the better is sounds. The talent will also appreciate a larger, more spacious, airy booth to perform in. And you do have lots of space there to play with, so make it nice.

and how large to keep the control room based on my room dimensions.

I'd suggest that you use your available dimensions and adjust the length of the control room section to get a good modal response (room ratio), while trying to make the booth as big as possible. Juggle the two, until you have a large iso booth and a good room ratio for the CR.

would like to keep the construction as simple as possible as I will be building this myself and would like to stay away from angled walls and what not unless absolutely necessary.

Absolutely NOT necessary! It's a myth that rooms must have angled walls. They can be angled if you want, or if the room design calls for them, but there is no NEED to angle them. So that's goo news, I guess!

As far as the floor of the vocal booth is concerned, can this be built straight on the concrete floor?

Yes. In fact, the concrete floor IS the floor of the booth! You might perhaps want to put down laminate flooring to make it look nicer, but nothing more than that.

Just lay my preferred flooring on top of the concrete per recommended manufacture spec

Correct. Assuming it is laminate flooring, and that the concrete slab is already smooth, flat and level, then you'll just need the right underlay and the laminate. That goes in fast and easy.

Or do I need to build a raised floor and try to isolate the booth even further?

Only if you want to make your life miserable and trash your isolation! Here's why: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=2&t=8173

I just noticed that your low ceiling is a DROP ceiling, so your first order of business should be to get rid of that: it's no use to you for either the control room or the booth.

My first question is, when I build my inside-out booth can I construct it as shown (right up against the wall) ? Or do i need to have air gap between booth and control room walls. Can I leave the control room walls as is if I am not concerned with sound traveling in/out of the control room?

If that were my space, I would build a simple stud wall across the far end of the room, to divide off the vocal booth space, then build the booth within that space. The concept here is plain old "room in a room" construction. That "wall across the far end" completes the missing side of the outer-leaf, then build the booth itself as a simple stud frame (four walls plus ceiling) with drywall on only ONE side of the framing: Bingo! You have a well isolated 2-leaf MSM isolation system. However, since you don't know how those other three walls are built, and they are probably already typical stud-framed office walls (from what you say), then you'll probably need to increase the mass on those (by adding an extra layer of 5/8" drywall on top of what is already there, and sealing it all up air tight), leaving a larger air gap than normal, then also adding extra mass to the walls of your inner leaf. That way, you compensate for any possible 3-leaf issues.

- Stuart -

[flyguyz]

I'd rotate your control room so that you are looking to the right of the picture.

Definitely! That's a really nice sized room: Low ceiling, unfortunately, but around 400 ft2 floor area, so it would be possible to have the room oriented "sideways" (the way you show it in your diagram), but you would not be able to use diffusion in the rear wall with only 15' length to play with. On the other hand, if you rotate it as Greg suggested, there's PLENTY of room to the back of the room to be able to use diffusion. You can have deep bass trapping AND diffusion with that orientation. You can even get the couch into a much better acoustic location, well away from the rear wall, so your client / the producer / musicians / WAGs, etc will be able to hear the mix from the couch with much smoother response, closer to what you will be hearing at the mix position.

What is the minimum length of the room needed to use a diffusor? This will help me determine which orientation Id like to go with, and whether I want to use diffusion or not.

There is also what looks like a split A/C unit on the wall which I will be placing the couch against.

It might be better if you can get that moved to the middle of the rear wall (assuming you do rotate the orientation). If not, then that's OK too.

Yeah,I won't be moving this

Im hoping someone could give me an optimal design/layout (dimensions) I could use for this space. I am not sure how large i should make the booth,

Basically, as large as possible! Small rooms sound "boxy", and there's nothing you can do to fix that. The boxy sound will be in your mics, since it is ingrained into the actual acoustic response of the booth, and cannot be treated. It can be damped a little, but then the booth sounds dead and unpleasant. Larger booths have less of that problem. The larger it is, the better is sounds. The talent will also appreciate a larger, more spacious, airy booth to perform in. And you do have lots of space there to play with, so make it nice.

and how large to keep the control room based on my room dimensions.

I'd suggest that you use your available dimensions and adjust the length of the control room section to get a good modal response (room ratio), while trying to make the booth as big as possible. Juggle the two, until you have a large iso booth and a good room ratio for the CR.

would like to keep the construction as simple as possible as I will be building this myself and would like to stay away from angled walls and what not unless absolutely necessary.

Absolutely NOT necessary! It's a myth that rooms must have angled walls. They can be angled if you want, or if the room design calls for them, but there is no NEED to angle them. So that's goo news, I guess!

As far as the floor of the vocal booth is concerned, can this be built straight on the concrete floor?

Yes. In fact, the concrete floor IS the floor of the booth! You might perhaps want to put down laminate flooring to make it look nicer, but nothing more than that.

Just lay my preferred flooring on top of the concrete per recommended manufacture spec

Correct. Assuming it is laminate flooring, and that the concrete slab is already smooth, flat and level, then you'll just need the right underlay and the laminate. That goes in fast and easy.

Or do I need to build a raised floor and try to isolate the booth even further?

Only if you want to make your life miserable and trash your isolation! Here's why: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=2&t=8173

I just noticed that your low ceiling is a DROP ceiling, so your first order of business should be to get rid of that: it's no use to you for either the control room or the booth.

I was hoping I could keep the drop ceiling as I am not concerned with noise entering and exiting the control room. It would save me money, time, and energy to leave it in place. If I do keep it as is (drop ceiling) would it still be necessary to construct a wall between the vocal booth and control room? What If I just built an inside out vocal booth on the far end of the room? How much sound isolation do you think I would be able to achieve? I'm only looking to keep noise out of the microphone while recording. Would like to be able to playback audio through monitors in control room while tracking vocals. Worse case scenario, I turn the volume down while tracking to a low level. and turn it up for playback.

My first question is, when I build my inside-out booth can I construct it as shown (right up against the wall) ? Or do i need to have air gap between booth and control room walls. Can I leave the control room walls as is if I am not concerned with sound traveling in/out of the control room?

If that were my space, I would build a simple stud wall across the far end of the room, to divide off the vocal booth space, then build the booth within that space. The concept here is plain old "room in a room" construction. That "wall across the far end" completes the missing side of the outer-leaf, then build the booth itself as a simple stud frame (four walls plus ceiling) with drywall on only ONE side of the framing: Bingo! You have a well isolated 2-leaf MSM isolation system. However, since you don't know how those other three walls are built, and they are probably already typical stud-framed office walls (from what you say), then you'll probably need to increase the mass on those (by adding an extra layer of 5/8" drywall on top of what is already there, and sealing it all up air tight), leaving a larger air gap than normal, then also adding extra mass to the walls of your inner leaf. That way, you compensate for any possible 3-leaf issues.

I was hoping to save on costs by not doing the MSM room in room design. I don't plan on adding mass to the exterior walls. There are open office space and open storage space on all 4 sides of the room (the front of the room, and the two sides have other office space/common area on the other side of them, and the rear wall has storage area behind it) I was hoping to be able to just construct the inside out vocal booth inside the preexisting room, isolate it the best I can by proper construction methods and just make sure the vocal booth was ventilated properly. The main room has a drop ceiling and is not airtight to begin with so I wouldn't need to worry about extra ventilation there... I only plan on treating the control room for sound absorption and do not plan on sound proofing the control room.

- Stuart -

Based on my plan above, would constructing the wall between the two still be necessary? Since I have a drop ceiling, wouldnt that defeat the purpose of creating the wall to separate the two (sound would just travel over the wall? At any rate, I've attached a very rough draft (not to scale, and dimensions are not planned yet). The green wall has drywall on both sides. Would this be the correct way to build the two rooms?.

[Gregwor]

What is the minimum length of the room needed to use a diffusor? This will help me determine which orientation Id like to go with, and whether I want to use diffusion or not.

The device can be placed >3m from listening position.

If I do keep it as is (drop ceiling) would it still be necessary to construct a wall between the vocal booth and control room?

Yes

What If I just built an inside out vocal booth on the far end of the room?

Then the level of isolation you will achieve will be poor. You've indicated the amount of isolation you desire, and having a room in a room is the only way you're going to achieve it.

How much sound isolation do you think I would be able to achieve?

You can do the math using the mass law equation, typing in different amounts of mass on walls. You'll see that it isn't very awesome. Using the MSM equation (for a room in a room) is excellent.

I was hoping to save on costs by not doing the MSM room in room design. I don't plan on adding mass to the exterior walls. There are open office space and open storage space on all 4 sides of the room (the front of the room, and the two sides have other office space/common area on the other side of them, and the rear wall has storage area behind it) I was hoping to be able to just construct the inside out vocal booth inside the preexisting room, isolate it the best I can by proper construction methods and just make sure the vocal booth was ventilated properly.

First off, if you leave the existing drywall on your walls (the drywall on your side of the studs) and then build another booth in your room, you'll have a three leaf system. Your isolation will actually be worse than it is right now. What you have to do is rip off the drywall on your side of the studs. The amount of isolation you achieve entirely depends on you. If you want to leave the drywall on the neighbouring side of the studs as is without beefing them up, that's on you. You can type those surface densities into this calculator I made and see how much isolation you will achieve (assuming perfect construction... that means an air tight outer and inner leaf).

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1rC1qE ... FVIs5bWjUq

So, no matter what, you will have to caulk every joint. That means the ceiling too. Also, assume they used the new construction standard "ultralight" drywall which is half as heavy as the stuff used in studio builds.

The main room has a drop ceiling and is not airtight to begin with so I wouldn't need to worry about extra ventilation there... I only plan on treating the control room for sound absorption and do not plan on sound proofing the control room.

Sure, if you want to keep this easy and cheap and don't care much about your control room, leave it as is and throw up some bass traps and panels and do your thing. You've clearly stated that having an isolated vocal booth is the primary goal so I suppose concentrate on that.

Based on my plan above, would constructing the wall between the two still be necessary?

Yes. If you don't, you'll only achieve slightly better isolation that you would get with just a normal room in a house.

Since I have a drop ceiling, wouldnt that defeat the purpose of creating the wall to separate the two (sound would just travel over the wall?

No. You could yank out the dropped ceiling just above where your vocal booth would go. Frame your separation wall floor to ceiling (the real ceiling above your dropped ceiling). Seal that new room air tight with caulk. Then build your room in a room in there. Like Stuart said though, to gain the extra height and prevent rattling, it might be beneficial to yank out all of the dropped ceiling in your space. It would allow easy placement of clouds later on if you want to treat your control room better.

At any rate, I've attached a very rough draft (not to scale, and dimensions are not planned yet).

This is the same SKP you posted before. It's a control room, not an ISO room. Also, as you've stated, the dimensions don't work. No where in the SKP have you left room for HVAC silencers. Assuming the room in your SKP is intended to be your ISO room, that means your control room area is at the top. It's very square and leaving the hallway (along the right hand side of the SKP) makes it so that you can't put a bass trap in the back of your control room. You would also have to add a door there to provide you with symmetry in your mixing room. Did you not like the rough drawing I did on your SKP? My layout means you'd only need entry doors to your booth and no where else. It provides space (and accurate air flow in the booth) for the HVAC silencers. It provides you with a control room symmetry. It allows every corner to be free for bass trapping. Plus, it allows for easy construction -- one big divider wall across the short length of the room to complete your outer leaf.

The green wall has drywall on both sides. Would this be the correct way to build the two rooms?

I don't see any green walls in your drawing. Maybe you uploaded the wrong SKP?

I hope this all makes sense. I realize you probably want this to be a quick build and super cheap, but in order to make it work the way you want, it is going to take some time and care. I sure am glad you're reaching out for advice and trying to plan it. I just don't think you realize how crappy your isolation will be unless you do it the way everyone else does it. Realize how much time and money you're going to waste if you build something that doesn't work. You'll have to either live with it (which would be horrible), or else tear it down and build it all again, the right way. If you'd like to read some threads where this has been the exact story for some forum members, we can find and link you to them.

Greg

[flyguyz]

I was hoping that I could build a vocal booth at the far end of this room using the same design john used in the sketchup file he posted here:

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14147

He commented "Here's a design to fit into the corner of your room. The aircon ducting is an option."

So I was assuming I could just build this type of booth inside my existing room. I wasn't under the impression that I would have to build a room around this booth.

I am a little confused at this point. Could someone please explain how this sketchup booth design would need to be placed into an existing room?

[Gregwor]

You can build a booth like this. But you're going to only achieve the isolation of the 2 layers of 5/8" drywall. If you're okay with that, build that sucker anywhere you want!

Greg

[flyguyz]

Thanks for the response. I guess my question is how much isolation would I get from just 2 layers of 5/8 drywall with green glue in between?

Lastly, If I understand correctly, If i did decide to place it inside a room in room design then I would have to create a wall to separate the control room and vocal booth. This wall would only have drywall on the face facing the controll room, and nothing on the side facing the vocal booth? Also the remaining three walls surrounding the vocal booth would be blank on the interior and only have drywall on the exterior of the framing? correct?

[Gregwor]

You can check how much isolation you will get using this equation:
TL(dB)= 20log(M) + 20log(f) -47.2
M is the surface density of the wall (mass per unit area (kg/m²) )
F is the center frequency of the third-octave measurement band.

You'll see that you get horrible isolation at low frequencies.

Your assumptions regarding the wall between the control room and ISO room and their respective drywall is correct. Sorry, I would quote you, but I'm on my phone and it's not cooperating well with copy and paste.

Greg

[flyguyz]

Looking for some feedback on this modified layout.

I have the following questions:

1) Are these dimensions for the control room reasonable or is there a room l x w that would be more favorable design? I'd like to keep existing drop ceiling of 94" in control room

2) I have the vocal booth drawn out as a 6 x 10 booth (1 " between front and rear framing = 6" air gap between drywall) Should I extend the length longer than 10 feet? I havent worked out the ceiling construction yet, so I don't have an exact height. Hoping to get close to 8ft in the vocal booth area and keep drop ceiling of 94" in the control room area only.

The vocal booth will not be inside out as previously mentioned, but instead will be standard MAM design with 2 drywall layers with gg in b/w

(Not shown - there is one layer of drywall on the interior walls of the control room. I will only be doubling up the walls of the vocal booth)

I am also thinking about just installing a solid core door (no window to booth), and using video and monitor to see artist in vocal booth instead.

3) there is about a 15" soffit in the front of the room. I was thinking about removing the interior drywall and using that area to put the bass trap hangers. If the space in between is less than 15" can i still use smaller hangers to achieve similar effect with taming the low end?

4) If I remove the drywall as mentioned in step 3, would my new length extend to the drywall on the other side of the soffit (basically include the soffit area as part of the length of the control room?)

[Gregwor]

1) Are these dimensions for the control room reasonable or is there a room l x w that would be more favorable design? I'd like to keep existing drop ceiling of 94" in control room

I unfortunately don't have time to type in the dimensions and look into different possibilities. You know the rules for dimensions, so I think you've got it under control. I can't see anything wrong with the dimensions with a quick look.

2) I have the vocal booth drawn out as a 6 x 10 booth (1 " between front and rear framing = 6" air gap between drywall) Should I extend the length longer than 10 feet?

Extending the 10' closer to 12' will make it a multiple of the 6' so that would be bad.

The vocal booth will not be inside out as previously mentioned, but instead will be standard MAM design with 2 drywall layers with gg in b/w

There is no reason you shouldn't at least build the ceiling inside out. You really would be crazy not to.

I am also thinking about just installing a solid core door (no window to booth), and using video and monitor to see artist in vocal booth instead.

You mean two solid core doors, right?

3) there is about a 15" soffit in the front of the room. I was thinking about removing the interior drywall and using that area to put the bass trap hangers. If the space in between is less than 15" can i still use smaller hangers to achieve similar effect with taming the low end?

Deeper is always better, but around here, most of us just work with what we have. So if 15" is all you have, then cool. But if you an spare more, cool. Remember, bigger hangers = more material = more expensive. Hangers are far from cheap to make correctly.

4) If I remove the drywall as mentioned in step 3, would my new length extend to the drywall on the other side of the soffit (basically include the soffit area as part of the length of the control room?)

Yes. The acoustic size of your room is measured from the hard surfaces. So basically your inner leaf.

Greg