Small vocal studio design help/advice

[flyguyz]

Hi all,

I am thinking about renting out a small space in a mixed use commercial building.

The space I have to work with is 20' x 11' x 7'1" (L x W x H). The height is currently a drop ceiling that could be removed to gain another estimated 1' to 1'6". (Existing ductwork would need to be removed in order to raise ceiling)

See attached file for more detailed layout of the space

The main purpose of the studio space will be music production using software like pro tools, maschine, reason, etc...

I will also be recording vocals only and would like to have both a control room/music production room and separate iso booth for vocal recording.

I am not too concerned with sound isolation between exterior walls and control room. But I am concerned with keeping sound from control room and other neighboring business from entering vocal booth.

Initially i was thinking of a MAM design for both the control room and vocal booth, but I am wondering if I could save space, time, and money by only building the vocal booth within the current room using a double drywall with GG between construction.

I am not sure the exact decibel loudness i will be at, but I will be using ns10 monitors and krk sub for playing back audio in the control room. This will be the loudest source of audio coming from my space.

My main concerns are:

1) isolating vocal booth from control room noise (Would like to playback sound through montiors while tracking vocals w/o picking up unwanted sounds from control room in vocal booth)

2) There is a neighboring fitness gym business on the other side of a shared wall in this space (see attachment). THey are not concerned with sound coming from my business, however, in the future, if tenant changes this could be a different story.

3) There is an in-window style a/c unit in the front of the building. Not sure if I should be concerned with this if I am only concerned about isolating vocal booth and not worried about sound entering/leaving control room

Questions:

1) Is this space useable? or is it too small to have a small control room and iso booth?

2) What would be the best design/layout to maximize use of the space and contain decent ratios for mixing and recording?

3) Since I am only recording vocals (not drums, bands, etc...) can I get away with a single leaf construction plan?

4) Should i go through the hassle of removing ductwork to raise the ceiling height?

Im sure I will have more questions to follow, but answers to these questions would help me get closer to deciding if I want to rent the space out or not before someone else swoops in and takes it!!

Thanks for your help!

[flyguyz]

Sorry for posting multiple pictures. I don't know what happened there!

ALso, i forgot to mention, the door leading into the 11x20 space is not existing yet.

If i decide to rent out the space, the landlord will construct a wall and door to create the hallway shown in the attachment.

So it can be placed anywhere I deem fit.

He needs a hallway to allow other tenants access to the bathrooms and business space in the rear of the building.

[rockindad]

Hey Flyguyz,

The purpose of MAM design is to achieve isolation. If that is not required for the room then you could save some expense and simply work on acoustic treatment of the main production space.

Then you could look at vocal booth designs and have that be the only part of your build...which would require a MAM design.

It depends on how long you think you'll stay in the space as to considerations for future neighbours. You will lose some area if you go down that road...lots of studios use smaller spaces, so that's not necessarily a deal breaker.

BTW - if you go to the original post and press 'edit' you can remove the repeated image.

Cheers

Scott

[flyguyz]

Thanks for the advice Scott!

I guess that is a decision I need to make...the tenants who are in the building now have no issues, but future tenants may, hopefully future tenants will have to agree to rent the space knowing that there is a studio next door and I can continue business as usual.

Anyone have advice on how to split the space up between control room and booth?

I'm assuming I should be more concerned with the room ratios in the control room vs the booth...

Personally I love the look/design of the NuFaith Studios John designed and was wondering if a similar design would work in my space!??

Also, any info on the sliding glass door used for the vocal booth?

http://www.johnlsayers.com/Pages/NuFaith.html

[flyguyz]

So I may have the opportunity to use a larger space if a few modifications to the property can be signed off on with the landlord and get permit approval.

The proposed change would allow me to use the spaces "control room" and "vocal booth".

As far as the control room is concerned, I have a few design questions:

1) Would it be best to position my self facing the short wall (14'foot wall) or the longer wall? The rough layout i attached shows me facing the longer wall.

2) I plan on purchasing new yamaha HS8's and was wondering if these monitors would work with a room this size, or if I should be looking for something smaller/bigger based on room size? I would like to soffit/flush mount them if possible. Design wise, could I make it work in this space? I also use a sub (krk10s i believe)

3) If I keep the layout shown below, Should I use the sliding glass door to enter the vocal booth, or would i be better off using a regular door to avoid reflections off the glass door?

4) What would be the best way to treat the control room acoustically? I would like to take the diy approach as far as building the bass traps and acoustic panels. I could use some advice on what type of treatment would necessary (bass traps, cloud, absrobers, panels, etc...) and where to place them.

5) Lastly, I can make the vocal booth smaller if anyone suggests different dimensions that would work better. However, I can not make it any larger than the dimensions shown. Would love feedback on the size of the vocal booth and any better designs that mya be possible.

Thanks for your help!

[rockindad]

The other thing to consider about isolation is, it's not just about sound going out, but also about sound coming in to your space. If the gym is playing constant music, which is pretty typical, then you may have that to contend with in your space as well.

As far as treatment is concerned, bass traps in the corners are a given, as well as hitting the first reflection points with some panels. Beyond that, it's a measure and see approach that is recommended. When you get to that stage you'll need a measurment mic and to do some sweep test to let the room tell you what it needs.

[flyguyz]

I am not too concerned with the noise coming in or out, I have been by the place a few times during business hours and you cant hear any noise coming from the gym through the walls.

I have started a rough design mockup in sketchup.

The control room dimensions are 14 x 20 x 8.5

The booth dimensions (not drawn to scale, shown for layout idea only) are 9 x 11 x 8

I have the following questions:

1) There is a doorway shown at the front of the control room (upper right hand corner) that I plan on covering filling in with concrete. My question is, if I decide not to cover this door up, and remove the bass trapping from the upper right hand corner, how big of a deal would that be?

The door would allow us access to bathrooms in the back of the building. If i cant map out an alternate path to the back of the building then I may not have the option of closing up the wall.

2) Is the general layout of the acoustic treatment ok? Nothing is drawn to scale, just mapping out ideas at this stage. Any and all feedback is welcome

3) I have decided not to soffit mount the speakers, and am going to use speaker stands instead. Anything I should be aware of design wise?

4) I like the "look" of using the sliding glass doors to enter the vocal booth. Is this a bad idea design wise? Would I be able to use standard sliding glass doors? The acoustic doors are quite expensive, would rather save the money if extreme isolation is not necessary. I am only concerned with preventing monitor playback from reaching microphone inside the vocal booth.

5) I show a diffusor on the back wall, and cloud on the ceiling. Do I have a large enough space to warrant the use of these treatments?

Thanks for the help!

[rockindad]

I am not too concerned with the noise coming in or out, I have been by the place a few times during business hours and you cant hear any noise coming from the gym through the walls.

Are they playing music? Have you been there during peek times? I'm not saying you're wrong, just do due diligence.

1) There is a doorway shown at the front of the control room (upper right hand corner) that I plan on covering filling in with concrete. My question is, if I decide not to cover this door up, and remove the bass trapping from the upper right hand corner, how big of a deal would that be?

Yep - removing bass trapping from the corner is a big deal. Some people make moveable bass traps - superchunks on wheels. The door is just one more thing to deal with - not a deal breaker.

4) I like the "look" of using the sliding glass doors to enter the vocal booth. Is this a bad idea design wise? Would I be able to use standard sliding glass doors? The acoustic doors are quite expensive, would rather save the money if extreme isolation is not necessary. I am only concerned with preventing monitor playback from reaching microphone inside the vocal booth.

It's about density and seals - if you can get those on a 'standard' door, then yes. I reckon you're going to need this part to work well. There are a lot of people who have used the sliding doors - search the forum here, they'll turn up.

5) I show a diffusor on the back wall, and cloud on the ceiling. Do I have a large enough space to warrant the use of these treatments?

There are proximity rules about diffusors...not within x metres of a listening position...but I don't know them off the top of my head. There's another forum search for you.

[flyguyz]

Thanks for the feedback. I have been in the gym when they had music playing and I could not hear it at all next door.

I like the idea of the bass trap on wheels. Worst case scenario I may have to go that route.