Hangers for control room design - Suggestions

[aparolin]

Plan situation.

[Soundman2020]

Hi there "aparolin", and welcome!

1. hangers placement make sense?

If that is teh BACK wall of the room, then yes. But if that is the FRONT wall of the room, then no.

2. I think to lower the ceiling ( 50 cm framing with 7 cm of fiberglass) only for the half of the room space.It' a good idea?

Fiberglass does not change the height of the ceiling. If you have a ceiling height of 320 cm, and you put 50 cm of fiberglass below that, then the acoustic ceiling height is still 320cm.

It's a good idea to put some absorption on the ceiling at the front of the room, but the best way to do that is with a "cloud".

Room dimensions: W: 5.20 L. 3.30 H. 320

Those are not good dimensions. You can see the problems on the screenshot you show with Andy's calculator. The height is almost exactly the same as the width, and the room is very long. compared to the width and height. I would lower the entire ceiling a bit and make the room a bit shorter. L=465, W=330, H=280 would be about as good as you can get it, without sacrificing too much volume. If you do an RFZ design, that would also help to break up the modal response a bit, and I would also make your ceiling cloud "hard backed", and angled quite a bit.

3. Worth narrow left and right walls to improve the response of the room?

No! Your room is already too narrow for the length and height: Do not change the width: Leave it at 330cm. Change only the length, reducing it to about 465cm, and the height, reducing it to about 280 cm. Try those dimensions on Andy's calculator, and you'll see the difference.

I have that space measuring 53 cm that I'd use to place hanhers.

I have done hangers on 50cm of space for a small control room before, and they do work, but as FriFlo mentioned, they have to be angled, not straight, and they have to be placed correctly at the modal nodes of the room width. It would be better to have more depth, though. 53 cm will work, but not as much as having deeper hangers.

As FriFlo also mentioned, you have many other problems with that room that need fixing: it is not going to work well like it is. Everything he mentioned is very important.

I also agree that it would not be good to put a slot wall at the rear of the room. Or at least, not a tuned slotwall. You could have some wood slats across it, but with very wide gaps between them, and not at any position where it would cause spectral reflections from your speakers at high frequencies.

here is a plant of the current situation

That's better, but if you are going to do that shape at the front of the room, I would suggest that you should soffit-mount your speakers properly.

Also, do not use a desk like that, with big boxes sticking up from the surface. Those will cause problems, acoustically...

- Stuart -

[aparolin]

Hi Stuart, thanks for your help!

Those are not good dimensions. You can see the problems on the screenshot you show with Andy's calculator. The height is almost exactly the same as the width, and the room is very long. compared to the width and height. I would lower the entire ceiling a bit and make the room a bit shorter. L=465, W=330, H=280 would be about as good as you can get it, without sacrificing too much volume.

How can I do? Can I use a 12mm plasterboard mount on a wood frame?

It's a good idea to put some absorption on the ceiling at the front of the room, but the best way to do that is with a "cloud".

after lower the ceiling I need to buil a cloud or I just put insulation in the frame and cover it with cloth?

Also, do not use a desk like that, with big boxes sticking up from the surface. Those will cause problems, acoustically...

so..Better my hold and simple flat desk?

[aparolin]

Unfortunately,, I'm in rent with my home...What's about this? Lower only the part of cieling of RFZ with a 20 mm plasterbord leaf, can help?

[FriFlo]

Hi Stuart, thanks for your help!

Those are not good dimensions. You can see the problems on the screenshot you show with Andy's calculator. The height is almost exactly the same as the width, and the room is very long. compared to the width and height. I would lower the entire ceiling a bit and make the room a bit shorter. L=465, W=330, H=280 would be about as good as you can get it, without sacrificing too much volume.

How can I do? Can I use a 12mm plasterboard mount on a wood frame?

It's a good idea to put some absorption on the ceiling at the front of the room, but the best way to do that is with a "cloud".

after lower the ceiling I need to buil a cloud or I just put insulation in the frame and cover it with cloth?

Also, do not use a desk like that, with big boxes sticking up from the surface. Those will cause problems, acoustically...

so..Better my hold and simple flat desk?

You are missing some important facts:
1) 12mm plasterboard is to thin and probably too light (depending on the type you choose). You should use 20mm thick boards at least and possibly another layer.
2) the way you constructed your ceiling is physically impossible. The gypsum boards need to be attached to a frame above - each one at all sides.
3) by only adding a hung ceiling to the fron of the room, you don't change the acoustic properties of the whole room. In order to have a calculatable modal response, you need a square shape. You room has an irregular shape. So, the calculations room modes are not necessarily true. You need to MEASURE it with REW, to see what is going on.

You didn't say anything about your experience and the amount of money you can put into your design. But I assume, it won't be more than 3000€?
Then my advice is this:
- live with the fact, that you won't be able to really change the modal response of your room, as it will require you to lower the whole ceiling (to expensive and challenging for your expertise)
- instead, tame the bass as much as possible: you have plenty of space on the ceiling to build a really deep absorbers there, plus the bass traps and front/back absorbers you can get a decent and dry bass response
- as Stuart said: reflection-free zone (angled ceiling cloud, but bigger than yours and wall shape at your listening position)
- flush mounting is quite a task, but could be done
But , again: it is a mistake to assume, that you will post your designs here until someone says it is great! You will have to learn from a book and by reading proven concepts in this forum. What kind of money you can spend and how much of the work you can actually do yourself is vital to what you can accomplish with this room. There are many possibilities to do in in different price ranges with different results, but only you yourself can figure that out for your room.
Most people don't have the patience and money to do it properly. They often end up with just building some absorbers on the early reflection points, bass traps and a ceiling cloud (which in itself is also quite a lot of work). While a room like that is not perfect, it is certainly better then an untreated room when done properly! You strike me as the guy, who will end with that. Otherwise, you will need to put a lot of your time and more than the 3000€ in your room, or you let some professional do it and pay him. I hope, that gives you an idea how to not get stuck On a journey, that may take several years or turn out bad in spite of a lot of money spent. Again, I made these mistakes myself, even though at the time I started I didn't have enough money and experience. But it actually would have been better in retrospect to just learn for half a year and live for that time being with the untreated room. In that time you can also save more money to end up with a much better space ... What is your budget?

[aparolin]

almost 3000€

[FriFlo]

That will be rather close ... With 3000€ (without calculating any costs for equipment, cables, etc) you could do some structural modifications, like drywall, wood, etc, but you are limited only by the material quite a lot, what you can do. My advice, if you want this to be good:
Take about half a year (I assume you have to work or go to school as well) to learn acoustics and plan. Buy yourself a book, study designs here and ask questions. Step by step, plan your design and start building once it's finished and you have enough money, for what you planned. Also, learn some basics about building dry walls and wood working. You will also need quite a lot of tools, that also cost money! Actually, there is no way of learning the craftsmanship other, but by doing it. So you need to be realistic, what you can achieve with no level of experience. The truth is, you will never build anything as well as an experienced contractor, but I had to do everything myself as well, as work hours are the most expensive factor in Germany ....

[aparolin]

I'm grateful for your suggestion, but I need to build my studio right now.
I will wait Soundman answer.

[Soundman2020]

Unfortunately,, I'm in rent with my home...

If y9ou rent your home, are you allowed to make modifications to the room? For example, can you take off the drywall from the existing walls? Can you take it off the ceiling to get access to the joists and trusses?

Check your contract: there might be a prohibition about doing modifications like that, or hopefully there's just a clause that says you have to leave it in the same condition it was when you rented it. If you have that type of clause, then you are OK: you can build whatever you want, then just take that out and restore how it was originally if you leave. But if you have the prohibition to modify, then all you can do is build free-standing things inside the room, resting on the floor.

What are the walls, floor and ceiling made of?

How can I do? Can I use a 12mm plasterboard mount on a wood frame?

YEs you can do a wood frame, but no not with 12mm plasterboard (drywall). As FriFlo mentioned, that is too thin and too flexible to be good acoustically. And as he also mentioned, you cannot just attach the plasterboard at the edges. You must have a full wood frame up there, with the right sized wood and proper dimensions to support the plasterboard safely.

after lower the ceiling I need to buil a cloud

That depends on how you build the ceiling! If you build it angled correctly, then you would not need a cloud. But to keep it simple, I would suggest that you just build the ceiling flat, then hang a cloud below it at an angle. Make the cloud "hard-backed" (with thick plywood or MDF on top), to help with first reflections and also modal problems.

.Better my hold and simple flat desk?

Yes, a simply flat desk is better. And cheaper! Get a desk that is as small as possible: big desks can cause acoustic problems. So get one that is only as big as you need. Also make sure it is very solid and rigid, and that it does not vibrate or resonate. Typical cheap light-weight desks are not good for this, as they rattle, vibrate, and resonate.

but I need to build my studio right now.

Better slow down a bit! Don't build it before you have a 100% workable design, including everything: isolation, HVAC, electrical, treatment, etc. And don't design it before you know how! If you don't have time to learn, then hire someone to design it for you!

- Stuart -

[aparolin]

If you have that type of clause, then you are OK

Ok, I can do that!

What are the walls, floor and ceiling made of?

Wall it's made tuff brick, floor it's tile with laminate parquet and ceiling I think perforated brick.

Es you can do a wood frame, but no not with 12mm plasterboard (drywall).

Oh man, I know this, I need a solid frame! 20 mm it's good ?

I would suggest that you just build the ceiling flat, then hang a cloud below it at an angle.

Ok, I like it! It's easier.

Make the cloud "hard-backed" (with thick plywood or MDF on top), to help with first reflections and also modal problems.

You mean I buid a solid binding around the cloud and cover it with a 20mm plywood, so I have a box where I can place insulation?
I need to tilt it?how many degrees?

best way to do that is with a "cloud"

You mean the best way because the cloud is more efficient than to build a rockwool frame over the entire surface of the ceiling?

Better slow down a bit! Don't build it before you have a 100% workable design, including everything: isolation, HVAC, electrical, treatment, etc. And don't design it before you know how! If you don't have time to learn, then hire someone to design it for you!

Sure, I'm here to learn! You, FriFlo and the other guys are amazing people!
Cheers

[aparolin]

Second version, I think it's better...

[FriFlo]

You really need to take that advice seriously:
Slow down, read some book, then start designing and calculating the cost.
Your cloud is supposed to be hard backed, not fronted. The way you planned it, it is not much help absorbing. But there are so many things to consider, that you cannot start designing with your current knowledge. If you keep posting mistakes, people will just loose patience, because you are not listening. I know it's hard, cause you probably have some schedule planned. But it would be way better to work in that room as it is now and start designing once you caught up learning acoustic basics. The only alternative is to pay someone to design it for you. Then you just have to learn the building part and usage of REW, which is a lot of work on its own by the way ....

[Soundman2020]

Very well said, FriFlo! Excellent! I agree with every single word you said. Having the cloud upside-down is a clear indicator that there's a basic lack of acoustic understanding here.

- Stuart -