Small project studio/control room

[ltgp]

Hi guys,

I'm new to this forum, and I spend every day at least one hour reading it over my coffee breaks. I am a musician, arranger and a studio technician from Slovenia, and I want to build, or better put treat a room in my house for pre production, mixing, small projects and since I'm doing transcribing work for Slovenian institute for folk music (I have a degree in musicology and ethnomusicology) for doing that too. So I need a nice sounding room, that would be a great working spot, and suitable for occasional recording of acoustic guitars and some vocals. I do have a spare bed room which would be used for recording electrics. I do not need sound proofing (in the room I am treating), since the room is away from the bed rooms and the living room, there is only me and my girlfriend living in it and I also do not want to spend too much money for the room, since I'm planing to renovate the house any way and the room is in the part of the house which would be pretty much demolished

So...no sound proofing just sound treatment lets move on to the dimensions.

Height: 238cm
Lenght: 394cm
Width: 351cm

As far as the materials go, The walls are made from brick and are plastered, there is also a window as shown in the picture and below it there is a heater (the window is 143 cm wide and is 104 cm away from the each corner), The ceiling is made from drywall and the material for the floors is laminate. There is a 93cm door on the long wall which is 49cm away from the back wall
I want the desk to be in front of the window (I want to keep the window) and I will make a box in the style of a Helmholtz resonator to cover the heater.

I have been thinking to make the DIY wall units as shown here: http://johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm
Basically I want to make a couple of corner bass traps (the window wall), should I make the Base traps as they are in the DIY wall units or fill them with insulation, maybe use the bottom for the hangers? Absorbers at the area of first reflections (maybe DIY Helmholtz resonators?) and at back of the room rear wall absorbers with base traps on each side if needed. Do you think a cloud absorber would be a good idea too? Where should I put it? There will also be a leather sofa on the back wall

I will use stands for the main monitor speakers, but I have a pair of old HiFi speakers which I really like and would like to flush mount them in the corner bass traps, just to use them as reference speakers.
Otherwise my recording setup includes a computer 2 studio speakers, a couple of amps and guitars.

I am not that much limited by budget since I will build the room in stages, but I do not want to spend too much money, as said I am planning to renovate the house in a couple of years. I want to build something that is reusable too.

Questions:
1. Do you have any suggestions for the treatment of the room?
2. Would the DIY wall units work
3. For the front base traps should I use the design from the DIY wall units even if I decide to flush mount the HiFi speakers?
4. Should I make Hangers in the bottom part of the corner bass traps?
5. What kind of insulation should I use, Knauf rock wool and glass fiber is the one I can get in the shops here what about the density?
6. Can you pleas send me a link on information how to position my desk and speakers (I heard something about 30 percent of the length of the room)?

Thank you in advance for your answers, links and suggestions, as I said I am new to this but am keen to learn. And once again sorry for the incorrect photo size I wasn't able to change it.

[ltgp]

Can anyone please help and reply? Or just poit out that I did something wrong with the post, so I can change it to fit the rules?
Thank you

[Soundman2020]

Hi there "ltgp", and Welcome!

suitable for occasional recording of acoustic guitars and some vocals ... I do not need sound proofing (in the room I am treating)

Are you sure about that? You want to record with open mics, but you don't want isolation? So there is never any noise in or around your house, such as water running in pipes, toilet flushing, radio, TV, vacuum cleaner, telephone ringing, doorbell, people talking, doors opening and closing, people walking around... and never any wind, rain, hail, thunder outside... and never any helicopters or aircraft flying around... and no roads with traffic outside... police, ambulance, fire truck sirens.... no neighbors, dogs.... If you don't have any of that at all (nothing over about 25 dBC) then you are right: you do not need isolation. But if you do have any of those noises, then you should think again about isolation. It is fairly simple to isolate a room before treating it, but after it is treated then it becomes very hard to isolate it, because you need to take apart all of the treatment, do the isolation, then design and build new treatment for the room, since it will be a different size now, and will need different tuning...

the room is in the part of the house which would be pretty much demolished

If you are going to do that anyway, then why not do that first, then build the room properly right away, fully isolated and suitably treated. It would be much cheaper in the long run to do it that way...

I want the desk to be in front of the window (I want to keep the window)

Right! That probably is the best orientation for that room. The speakers will need to go roughly where the edges of the window frame are, so part of the window will be covered with the treatment panels that need to go between the wall and the speakers.

and I will make a box in the style of a Helmholtz resonator to cover the heater.

Why do you want it "in the style of a Helmholtz resonator"? There's no need for that: just disconnect the heater and box it in completely. It would be pretty hard to make a Helmholtz resonator that size, and it's hard to say so early on if you would even need one at that location, or what frequencies to tune it to.

Basically I want to make a couple of corner bass traps (the window wall), should I make the Base traps as they are in the DIY wall units or fill them with insulation, maybe use the bottom for the hangers?

For that size room, you are going to need something more substantial for your bass traps. I would suggest doing "superchunk" style traps for all four vertical corners.

Absorbers at the area of first reflections (maybe DIY Helmholtz resonators?)

Personally, I wouldn't put any tuned devices at the front of the room, close to the engineers ears. Just use absorption on the first reflection points.

Do you think a cloud absorber would be a good idea too? Where should I put it?

Yes, you probably will need a cloud. Hang it over the desk, in the area between the chair and the front wall. It might need to be angled a bit, and it might need to be "hard backed".

I will use stands for the main monitor speakers,

Excellent! The stands need to be very heavy, very solid, very rigid, and they need to be the correct height so that the acoustic axis of your speakers is at about 1.2m above the floor.

I have a pair of old HiFi speakers which I really like and would like to flush mount them in the corner bass traps, just to use them as reference speakers.

You seem to be confusing bass traps and soffit mounts (flush mounts). They are not the same thing. Soffit mounts are devices that have a very solid, heavy, thick, rigid front panel ("baffle")m and there's a hole it for the speaker to poke through. The speaker is also mounted very solidly and rigidly inside the soffit. It is possible to use part of the soffit below the speaker for bass trapping, yes, but the rest of it is all soffit.

And if you are going to soffit mount anything, then it should be your very best speakers: studio reference monitors. Not a pair of old HiFi speakers! Your best speakers should go in the best location, in the best mount, which is the soffit (flush mount). The cheap HiFi speakers can go on the stands.

1. Do you have any suggestions for the treatment of the room?

Normal treatment is to have large bass traps in as many corners as possible, correct geometry for the speaker and listening position, absorption on the first reflection points (both walls and the ceiling cloud), thick absorption on the rear wall, more absorption on the ceiling and walls a needed to get the correct decay time for the room, and a hard, solid floor.

3. For the front base traps should I use the design from the DIY wall units even if I decide to flush mount the HiFi speakers?

No. Soffit units for flush mounting speakers are very specific. They need careful designing. They are very different from the wall units.

4. Should I make Hangers in the bottom part of the corner bass traps?

No. For the rear corners, do full-length "superchunk" style traps, form the floor to the ceiling. If you do soffit mount your main speakers, then yes, you could put hangers in the area below the speaker shelf.

5. What kind of insulation should I use, Knauf rock wool and glass fiber is the one I can get in the shops here what about the density?

Both will work. For mineral wool, the density should be around 50 kg/m3. For fiberglass, it should be about 30 kg/m3.

6. Can you pleas send me a link on information how to position my desk and speakers (I heard something about 30 percent of the length of the room)?

I have explained that in several different posts on the forum. If you use the search function, you should be able find one of those. Look for words like "speaker geometry" and "mix position".

- Stuart -

[ltgp]

Thank you very much Stuart, your reply is more than helpful
When I said corner bass traps I meant super chunk corner bass traps, just failed to use the right term:)
So my plan is to put super chunks in all four corners, do bass traps for the first reflection points, on side walls and and a couple of clouds, and finally tick absorption on the rear wall. After that I'll see how the room behaves, I'll measure the response of the room, and go from there.

For the clouds not hard backing them seems reasonable to me, what about the absorbers on the side walls? Do they need to be hard backed? What is the reason for that? I've seen some that weren't hard backed and were positioned so that there was a 5 cm or more gap behind them?

And the last question:) for the supper chunks can I install them straight into the corner or should I hard back them? What should be the front panel size? Knauf dimensions are 100 cm by 60 cm and varying thickness, I was thinking of cutting it diagonally, which would give me the front panel width of 116,6 cm. Would this be a sufficient bass trap?

Thank you

[Soundman2020]

For the clouds not hard backing them seems reasonable to me,

I really would do a hard back on the cloud: it can help with modal response.

what about the absorbers on the side walls? Do they need to be hard backed?

Not necessary. In fact, it's best if they are not hard-backed. And if you can move them away from the wall on some type of spacers, to leave an air gap there, that's even better. It extends the absorption range down to even lower frequencies.

I've seen some that weren't hard backed and were positioned so that there was a 5 cm or more gap behind them?

Right! And if you can afford the space to make the gap bigger, that's better still. The bigger the gap, the lower the frequency range.

And the last question:) for the supper chunks can I install them straight into the corner or should I hard back them?

No backing needed: straight in the corner.

What should be the front panel size? Knauf dimensions are 100 cm by 60 cm and varying thickness, I was thinking of cutting it diagonally, which would give me the front panel width of 116,6 cm. Would this be a sufficient bass trap?

That would be a really good size.


- Stuart -