New studio panel advice needed please.

[Soundman2020]

I would think that those are overkill.

Yeah, me too! You'd be cutting away half the joist by drilling a hole big enough for that! You could hang your entire room from a couple of those things.... and your car, too!

- Stuart -

[RJHollins]

One thing I didn't like about using the 'screw' version of the hooks is that I could NOT
be certain that I hit the 'meat' of the joist !

Of course, my build may be different, as I had 2 layers of 5/8" dryway for my ceiling.
So I opt'd for heavy duty toggle bolts. My hardback clouds weight ~ 80lbs [4" layer
of rigid fiberglass mounted on 3/4" plywood & 3/4" MDF --- size 2'x4']

[Eric Best]

I would think that those are overkill.

Ha!

Short and to the point!

Thanks Eric, that's what I thought too. I will go with the screw in eye bolts.

-A

My best writing!

[Mira Music]

One thing I didn't like about using the 'screw' version of the hooks is that I could NOT
be certain that I hit the 'meat' of the joist !

Of course, my build may be different, as I had 2 layers of 5/8" dryway for my ceiling.
So I opt'd for heavy duty toggle bolts. My hardback clouds weight ~ 80lbs [4" layer
of rigid fiberglass mounted on 3/4" plywood & 3/4" MDF --- size 2'x4']

Hmm...my ceiling is also 2 layers of 5/8" drywall but I have access to the space above the ceiling so I can measure exactly where each joist is. They are 16 OC. I have never seen a heavy duty toggle bolt but I'll look them up.

The cloud panels arrived this evening, 6' x 3' and 4" deep. 2 panels. The Roxul is sagging a bit when they are held in their position so my guy is going to come back on Monday with his pneumatic stapler and we will make the burlap really tight so no sagging occurs. Otherwise they look great. I'll weigh them over the weekend to see what I'm dealing with then probably hang em on Monday.

I'll post some pics over the weekend.

-A

[Mira Music]

My best writing!

Indeed sir, indeed!

[Mira Music]

I would think that those are overkill.

Yeah, me too! You'd be cutting away half the joist by drilling a hole big enough for that! You could hang your entire room from a couple of those things.... and your car, too!

- Stuart -

LOL!

I must agree there Stuart!v

[Soundman2020]

The Roxul is sagging a bit when they are held in their position so my guy is going to come back on Monday with his pneumatic stapler and we will make the burlap really tight so no sagging occurs.

Just checking here: Did he put a layer of plastic between the burlap and the Roxul? It's there for two reasons: One is to reflect some highs back into the room, so it doesn't over-treat and sound too dead. The other is to stop the fibers from the Roxul slowly filtering down through the burlap over time, all over your console and other gear...


- Stuart -

[RJHollins]

hmmm ... as I follow along on the thread [learn from everyone I can]

Curious about the 'plastic wrap' on the clouds, under the fabric [since I've yet to cover mine].

I've seen this 'plastic' treatment mentioned regarding other treatments, such as chunky
corner traps ... but not heard about use on clouds.

Any data available to educates 'us' students here would be always appreciated


BTW ... the toggle bolts I used [from Lowes] are these:.

PL_PID_1000000436.jpg

NOW ... as xSpace reminded me ... the 'holding' power should be considered hanging from
the wall [shear strength] .... but, since the bolt is connected to a nut in the toggle, these
are very strong. ALSO ... my 2 layers of ceiling drywall have the proper screwing schedule
applied. With the cloud weight distributed across 2 joist above ... confidence is high as
to the safety factor. Unfortunately, having banged my head on the very front one [low
ceiling for me] , I was acutely reminded just how solid these panels are mounted


OH ... the Mitsubishi Mr Slim has been a great purchase. It works great, and is very quiet ...
even considering that my rooms noise floor is around 20dB [actually tough to measure when
breathing]. I glad I went with the combined AC/Heat unit ... now I can just set a temp and
let the unit handle whats needed.

OK .... back to listen/learn mode

[Mira Music]

The Roxul is sagging a bit when they are held in their position so my guy is going to come back on Monday with his pneumatic stapler and we will make the burlap really tight so no sagging occurs.

Just checking here: Did he put a layer of plastic between the burlap and the Roxul? It's there for two reasons: One is to reflect some highs back into the room, so it doesn't over-treat and sound too dead. The other is to stop the fibers from the Roxul slowly filtering down through the burlap over time, all over your console and other gear...


- Stuart -

He did not put any plastic between the burlap and the Roxul. Is this a specific kind of plastic? Could I use something like paint sheets?
Another quick question...these clouds are using Roxul AFB for the stuffing. Is this ok or should it be rigid fiberglass?

[Soundman2020]

Here's a very brief old thread where this was discussed a bit. There are more threads like this, but I don't have time to search the forum for them right now.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =2&t=14590

Hope that helps to clarify!


- Stuart -

[Mira Music]

UPDATE

My guy Brian came round today and we fixed the cloud panels so they don't sag so much.

WE had the just cut the burlap cos we couldn't remove the inner frame without destroying it. I bought .7mil drop cloths this morning from Home Despot along with some spray adhesive. I applied adhesive to the frame and a little to the Roxul then we stretched the plastic over tight and pressed the sides down on the glue. Then the burlap went back on. Luckily we had enough material to re attach with staples!

Now all I gotta do it hang them!

I'm hoping my contractor can come lend a hand soon. I'll post pics of the hanging...

Cloud01.jpg

Cloud02.jpg

Cloud05.jpg

Cloud08.jpg

Cloud09.jpg

Cloud10.jpg

Cloud12.jpg

Cloud13.jpg

Cloud 141.jpg

Cloud15.jpg

Cloud17.jpg

Cloud19.jpg

See next post for extra pics...

[Mira Music]

The rest of the pics....

Cloud20.jpg

Cloud 1.jpg

Cloud 2.jpg

Cloud 3.jpg

The panels look SO much better and I'm hoping the top end will sound good too like John says it will. Also no dust and particles over my gear!!

That's all folks!

-A

[Mira Music]

So while I'm waiting for the contractor to come help with the cloud hanging I decided to try a few things to even out the bass response a bit.

While working on a mix the other night I noticed that there is really very little bass at the mix position. No matter how high I turned up the sub the bass at the mix position was just not there but when I moved further back the bass was huge and tight.
After measuring the distance of the center of the woofer from the ceiling and floor I saw that the speakers were practically exactly halfway between them. After removing the sub from the chain the first thing I tried was placing the Focals on their sides. Already a big improvement. I then experimented with moving them front to back along the triangle axes and that improved the bass response too. Even while walking around the room the bass seemed more even except right in the corners in front of the traps. I then moved them further apart starting with lining them up exactly in the center of the bass traps in the corners. This produced a huge difference! They were too far apart at this point so I moved them closer together until I found a place for them that produced an even, tight bass response. I then put the sub back in the chain with the sub in between the speakers and set the crossover to 40hz. MUCH BETTER!
The low frequencies sound less boxy and way more even around the room. I still have a slight modal ring but it's way less pronounced than when I first set up the system and did some testing.
Just for curiosity sake I plugged my room dimensions into the Excel spreadsheet posted here http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5801

After a bit more measuring and adjusting I think I have the monitors in a much better position. I am not in an equilateral triangle with the monitors anymore but the improvement it big enough that it's not worrying me at this point. I'm also hoping the cloud will even out the modal ring a little more.

I'll finish my mix tonight and take it elsewhere to see how I'm doing.

-A

[Mira Music]

SUCCESS!!!

Well I finally got tired of waiting for the contractor to come round and help out so I got 2 buddies to give up a morning and we managed to do it!

Cloud 3 (2).jpg

Cloud Vignette (2).jpg

Cloud Full NO HDR (1).jpg

Cloud Full (2).jpg

Cloud Side (2).jpg

Cloud 9 (2).jpg

The cloud was hung into the ceiling joists with large screw in eyes. I was originally going to use thin steel cable but it was too finicky and hard to work with so chain was used instead.
The sound is greatly improved. Bass is more focused and a lot of the standing wave around the "C" note has gone. It is not completely gone but it is way more manageable. I will have to see how much it is still a problem in the coming weeks.
One bad side effect of the cloud seems to be a loss of isolation especially low frequencies. I seem to be able to hear more outside than I did before I hung the cloud. Not much I can do about that I would think.

Here is a very quick reading taken at the mix position before and after hanging the cloud.

cloud 1.jpg

More to come as I mix a lot of stuff this week. Will do some recording in here too.

-A